Scripture Text (NRSV)
10:35 James and John, the sons of Zebedee, came forward to him and
said to him, "Teacher, we want you to do for us whatever we ask of
you."
10:36 And he said to them, "What is it you want me to do for you?"
10:37 And they said to him, "Grant us to sit, one at your right hand
and one at your left, in your glory."
10:38 But Jesus said to them, "You do not know what you are asking.
Are you able to drink the cup that I drink, or be baptized with the
baptism that I am baptized with?"
10:39 They replied, "We are able." Then Jesus said to them, "The cup
that I drink you will drink; and with the baptism with which I am
baptized, you will be baptized;
10:40 but to sit at my right hand or at my left is not mine to grant,
but it is for those for whom it has been prepared."
10:41 When the ten heard this, they began to be angry with James and
John.
10:42 So Jesus called them and said to them, "You know that among the
Gentiles those whom they recognize as their rulers lord it over them,
and their great ones are tyrants over them.
10:43 But it is not so among you; but whoever wishes to become great
among you must be your servant,
10:44 and whoever wishes to be first among you must be slave of all.
10:45 For the Son of Man came not to be served but to serve, and to
give his life a ransom for many."
Comments:
STEWARDSHIP:
What is the relationship between stewardship and discipleship? How do
we help our people, and ourselves, to embrace the cross-life in
servanthood, and not the worldly lure of fame and honor? Why can't we
grasp that reward is found in our obedience? It is not something other
than living into the call of our discipleship?
When will we embrace the road of downward mobility instead of upward
mobiity (Henri Nouwen)?
Who do we live as servants to day? This ME generation suggests that we
live only for ourselves.
tom in ga
I don't know....in today's society we would probably call James and
John "go-getters", very ambitious young men. Their gumption at walking
up to the Boss and asking for a raise for good work done would be
applauded. Why, they might get a promotion for their boldness! "Give
me whatever I want because I'm worth it to this business!" Jesus tells
them all, in order to make it to the top around here, you have to
start out in the mail room or on the janitorial staff. You don't start
out as a Vice President. You put yourself in a position of humble
service, doing your job proudly, and often enduring near-invisiblility
or even some abuse by people in power. God will elevate you. You don't
promote yourself.
My thought turns toward the remaining 10 disciples and their reaction
to the boldness of the 2. Why did they get so riled up? Were they
thinking that James and John were going to be the only ones to inherit
Jesus' cup (remember, to a Jew, a full cup of wine symbolized
blessings, as the cups in the Seder) because they got there first to
ask about it?
Or were they thinking that NOW these 2 Sons of Thunder have gone and
done it - we weren't talking about OUR dying before, and thanks to
these two guys, now we are!
Just thinking about the Scriptures, even though I'm not preaching the
next 2 Sundays. Gideons coming (the Session invited them) Oct 19 and
the next week is vacation to KY to help my dad celebrate his 91st
Birthday. Doctor told him he wouldn't live to see his 65th Birthday.
HA!
Have a great week, everyone. And thanks for making my pulpit very
crowded this morning. Many of you stood up there with me.....we got
"good reviews", by the way, thanks be to God!
KyHoosierCat
Thanks all for your help in my sermon this morning. I could not have
done it without you!
Now, here I am, first time for a Stewardship sermon. Any thoughts? Try
to keep to this lectionary passage? Chuck it and go for something new?
What to do, what to do ... (It was comforting to see the first post be
stewardship themed -- but I know I cannot be the only one out there
with Stewardship Sunday this week.)
Help! MM in PA
We are once again at the juxtaposition of free gift and good works.
You don't have to do anything to earn eternal life, it is a free gift
from God. But we also hear that you don't just tell God you accept the
gift and then go take your seat at the favored one's spot. A servant
spirit is necessary. You kneel at the feet of the pauper, you fill the
wine glass of the servant girl, you give the child your comfy chair,
and you will get the idea of the joyous Christian heart.
This text follows last week's Rich Young Man text perfectly. The power
James and John were seeking was every bit as much a hindrance to their
receiving the gifts of God as the RYM's wealth was to him. They were
going to have to get a new definition of Power, and the definition was
going to read: POWER syn: serve, love that is without reservation,
sacrifice.
A much-overused teaching tool: The definition of JOY? Jesus, Others,
Yourself. In that order.
One window into this passage is that it is a glimpse into every church
we serve, or will ever serve, or has ever been served. One bunch in
the church makes a power play, trying to get in the driver's seat of
the congregation, and once it becomes known, the reaction is outrage.
Feelings are hurt, pride is wounded, and self righteous condemnation
runs rampant. Suspicion and jealousy rear their ugly heads. One can
see the same dynamic in the church at Corinth where folks even sit
around the congregational tables in little closed groups of people who
will only relate to and share with their own little club. That the
Gospel of Mark is written after Corinthians make me wonder if this
passage is chosen for inclusion in the Gospel because Mark has seen
power groups happen already in the family of faith. That this story is
chosen to remind the faithful that a servants heart is the true glory
might have had the reality of the early congregations in mind.
Doc
I preached on the servant leadership theme a couple of weeks ago so I
don’t want to do it again so soon. Instead, I am touched by the
comment that “tcup that I drink you will drink; and with the baptism
with which I am baptized, you will be baptized;”
I see in the disciples a group of people who are touched and hooked by
Jesus. Their understanding is far from perfect and Mark’s gospel shows
the in a bad light quite often. Still, even as they are corrected time
after time they stick with Jesus and Jesus stands beside them. I think
this is an opportunity to affirm commitment even when we don’t fully
understand the call ourselves.
What it comes down to it this. I do not seek suffering. I don’t like
it, I would rather avoid it. But I do trust God and I want to be on
the side of those working for peace and justice, defending the
oppressed, resisting evil injustice and oppression in whatever forms
they present themselves. I can intellectually know that suffering may
come as a result of these convictions. And in that case I would choose
not to avoid the suffering rather than allow injustice by doing
nothing. I choose Christ even if constantly on my walk of faith I have
to hear the I have got it wrong and be reminded of what servant
leadership means.
Steve Hermes, Lander WY
James and John requested what many of our world today seek with every
fiber of their being - to be number one. Not many of those who desire
it consider the true cost involved in arriving at such lofty status.
Hence, my topic is "The Cost for Being Number One." John Grisham's
latest book, "Bleachers," is a good read for materials to illustrate
this for the sports minded people in your congregation. Even if you
are not fond of football, this book will make you think about the cost
of being number one. TN Mack
Hi, all, it's been a long time since I got on the 'net early enough in
the week to add a post. Good discussion going, here. This text always
presents a challenge. After all, don't we come to Christ all the time
with, "Lord, please give me everything I ask of you." Any Sons of
Thunder out there? (I'm a daughter, myself.) Does it seem to make a
difference that Mark has them ask for themselves, while Matthew says
their mom steps forward and Luke just says, "a dispute arose...". I
seem to remember that the left and right positions had a significance
that was specific. One carried authority to judge, and the other
carried authority to grant favors (or something like that). Anyone
know anything about civil rule at the time? Anyway, early musings. We
have Consecration Sunday (Stewardship emphasis) this Sunday, I'm
thinking we'll have a low number. We mailed the quarterly statements
and someone on the Stewardship Committee suggested we not put the
return address! How sad. Finding joy in service, LLP in PC
To MM in Pa,
I think this gospel lesson is a wonderful Stewardship lesson. I think
of Stewardship as not just money, but if we think that all we have and
all we are is already given to us by God, then, this servanthood
message is wonderful for Stewardship! Too many in our churches think
of our money as "OURS" and we are doing God a favor by giving him
some. If we think of it as His anyway, and that we are his servants,
it changes the whole focus and idea about our giving. All that we do
in the way of service, of mission, of teaching Sunday School, folding
bulletins, serving on committess, going out and visiting the poor or
the homebound, is all stewardship.
Susan in Wa.
Ky HoosierCat,
Have a great time with your dad's 90th! How wonderful to have proven
the Dr.'s wrong and proven that our days are in God's hands! I hope
you have a blessed time with him and the rest of your family.
Susan in Wa.
Susan in Wa,
Thanks for your advice. Actually, that is precisely my (and this
church's) idea of stewardship, and this is a wonderful passage for
talking about discipleship as servanthood. These last few weeks have
been great for that, learning how to be a disciple.
However, this is the Sunday that we begin our pledge campaign -- and
money is the topic. So much of the rest of my year is spent in
reinforcing that all that we have, all that we are, all we ever will
be is but a gift from God and that we give in response to God's grace
and love that was first given us. This week though, it needs to be
centered on the one area of stewardship we don't talk about much: the
financial side. And, I feel it's okay to talk about money -- Jesus
sure did.
I'm toying with switching to he widow's mite (which is a few weeks
from now) and just reversing the passages. Truth be told. I have a lot
of widows and mites in my congregation. They give and they give
generously, of time, talents, and finances -- but most are limited and
fixed in their income. I feel I need to be very aware of that and
positive in recognizing that mite is pretty important to God ... while
still finding a way to make those that can, stretch in their response.
MM in PA
KyHoosierCat,
Have a wonderful time at your dad's birthday celebration! How nice
that you have time and space this week to anticipate and prepare for
it while your pulpit is being filled by others. 95. Amazing. Such a
gift.
MM in PA
My first thought (late start this week) is something like, "Yeah, but
..."
I'm kind of going through this right now on a personal level. I've
spoiled my congregation to the point where a woman (Ms. Control Freak)
was angry because I wouldn't drop what I was doing and tend to her. I
said, "I'm in the middle of something right now." and she got all
huffy.
So, do I lead by being the servant of all, doing whatever they
request? I think not. Where is the biblical precedent for boundaries?
Kentucky HoosierCat - I sent you an e-mail. Hope it goes through this
time.
Sally in GA
KyHoosierCat, have a wonderful time at your family celebration, and
thanks for your early comments. I, too, have given some consideration
to the reaction of the other ten - and wondered if their anger was
really self-directed, as in "Why didn't I think of doing that?" Seems
the disciples weren't very good about picking up the more serious side
of Jesus' words to them, and I could see them getting hung up on the
audacity of their colleagues and missing the meaning. Our perspective
brings in the impending crucifixion - they just see a couple of guys
who might have blown an opportunity for the rest of them.
And to the person who sent the unsigned contribution about "JOY" -
it's not too overused... I've never heard that one before.
I'm intrigued by the way the question is posed by James and Johnin the
first place: not unlike a young child's attempt at manipulating a
response. Tell me first that you'll do what I ask, then I'll tell you
what I want you to do.
LaJo
Interesting how the folks in my church who park in the closest parking
spots to the door sit closest pews to the door in the sanctuary. The
favored spot isn't necessarily right up front at Jesus' right hand,
but the one closest to get out of church.
Sally
Sally -
Not exactly what Jesus meant by "the first will be last and the last
will be first," huh?
Truth is, it makes it difficult to be welcoming. Visitors have to walk
the farthest to get in, and once in, have to sit in front of eveyone
else. In my case (ELCA Lutheran), that can be very intimidating to
someone who doesn't know the routine of stand up/sit down/come forward
for the meal.
When I was in seminary, I was intentional about visiting as many
Lutheran churches as I could and was shocked at how many make that
aspect of the worship service very difficult for visitors - and how
unlikely it was that someone would sit near me and help me wade it.
I'm fortunte to have served two congregations (at the second one now)
that try to be conscious of that. Took some getting used to for me as
well: remembering that page numbers and simple hymnal descriptions
("blue book", "green book," not titles) need to flow as well as the
prayers.
Can we get some folks to move up in the pews - or back in the parking
lot - as an act of service? LaJo
this passage is interesting for this week. Good Morning America is in
Rome this week at the Vatican for the 25th anniversary of Pope John
Paul, and this morning they were discussing the College of Cardinals,
that are getting to know each other and it is all for the purpose of
the choosing of the next Pope. But one of the things they said was,
"For those who go into the arena believing they will come out as the
next Pope, they will exit still being a Cardinal." They added that
anyone who began candidating to be elected the Pope would
automatically lose.
It seems that James and John were candidating for themselves. But as
LLP said, it is interesting that one passage says their mother did the
candidating and another just talks about a dispute arising. I am not
sure yet of the significance of that.
Susan in Wa.
To Tom in Ga.
I agree with you that we haven't embraced the whole idea of "downward
mobility" vs. "upward." What I think is especially sad is how it has
so infiltrated the church as well. The churches that are seen as
successful are the big program churches with the huge budgets, and
1,000 plus people, 3 services, etc. If you get a group of Pastors into
a group, inevitably the question will come out, "How many worship at
your church?" And there is a hierarchy established with a judgement as
to whether our church is "Successful" or not. But this last Sunday,
one of my college girls was home for the weekend. As I was preaching,
I noticed she had tears in her eyes. (I don't think my sermon was THAT
bad!). After the benediction, I walked to the back of the church and
gave her a hug, and said, "Are you o.k.?" She said, "Oh yes, you just
have no idea how much I miss this little church!" So, I told her she
should come home every weekend! She laughed! We are not called to be
successful, but faithful. Just as the disciples themselves were not
picking up on the idea of servant leadership, neither do we, I am
sorry to say.
Susan in Wa.
on our knees we're all side by side.
Sally
LaJo - not only do I preach it, I DO it. Often my car is way off by
itself in one of the last spots.
I also move folks up. I was heartened several weeks ago on a
low-attendance Sunday to overhear, "We might as well move on up. Sally
will make us move, anyhow."
Sally
Sally,
Good point about the parking spots in comparison to where they sit in
church. A little funny: My nickname at my previous church was "Rev.
Mother." So, one Sunday morning driving to church with my 4 yr. old
son at the time, we arrived at the parking lot and someone had parked
in the spot I usually used. My son blurted out, "SOMEONE PARKED IN THE
REV. MOTHER'S SPOT!" To hear this 4 year old speak with such
indignation was rather funny!! I still get a chuckle out of it!
Susan in Wa.
I went to a pastor's meeting this morning and later skipped my
pericope Study. This place helps me get thinking. I've even started
sharing some of your comments with the pericope group.
Anyway- This morning, I heard this text in Mark read. I have to admit,
this was the first I had looked at it and then realized "hey- I'm up
this week!". But as I read it, and as it was read to me - one thing
jumped out-
How often do we try to tell God/Jesus what needs to happen.
"Teacher, we want you to do for us whatever we ask of you."
"Hey God- Take care of this for me okay- I need a favor from you God-
Handle it okay!"
But we never mean for God to handle it they way God might like- but
rather handle it the way we want it to be handled.
Michele PA
Another little funny about the sitting in the back of the church.
Leadership Magazine has really good comics. One of them showed a
sanctuary with one pew going across the back of the church. So, the
ushers would escort the people into the pew. But what the people
didn't notice was the pew was on runners, and so the ushers would push
a button, and the pew went sliding up to the front! Oh wouldn't we all
love to push that button! I think it should be a pastoral privilege!
Susan in Wa.
hey everyone,
I just wanted to tell you all too, how much I have appreciated and
been blessed by this wonderful cyber/theological community. There are
so many weeks when I am preaching that I am so aware of the Spirit's
leading through my brothers and sisters all over this world of ours,
and how I carry your words and thoughts into my own sermon
preparations. It would be fun to have a reunion sometime to be able to
put faces to usernames! So, anyway, I just wanted to let you know that
I am really grateful for all of you.
Susan in Wa.
Hi Sally in Ga.
No, I have not received your newest e-mail attempt. Let me give you
another address: UCMA_unitedinChrist@msn.com
I don't understand why my kyhoosiercat@hotmail.com isn't working for
you, but apparently it isn't.
I look forward to hearing from you.
KyHoosierCat
On the way to Jerusalem, the disciples ask Jesus to grant them seats
of honor. Jesus responds by announcing that he and his followers will
"rule" through self-giving service.
Firefighters, police officers, and rescue teams who rushed up the
World Trade Center towers two years ago in order to serve and save
rightfully became our models of the heroic. On a day that exhibited
the worst of human activity, they and others revealed the best.
Watching from afar, many of us wondered whether we would be able to
muster up enough courage and devotion to strangers.
Jesus, on this day, invites his followers to let such patterns of
self-giving and serving be a model of the normal, daily living of his
people. He invites us to find our way in the shape and pattern of his
suffering, death, and resurrection. He would have us open our eyes and
ears to those with whom we gather around the table: those with whom we
share in common a Creator and a Savior; those who like us, come with
open hands and hungry hearts to receive a gift that gives life as it
is given away.
Jesus would have us go out and serve those who haven't yet come to the
font or this table. To be witnesses of God's life-giving Yes in a
world full of shadows and Nos. To be those whose living points to the
one who gave his life as a ransom for the creation.
Jesus seeks out a community, a body, which will serve and give itself
away. Some of that activity will be dramatic and powerful; some will
be found in quiet acts of grace and mercy. For all of us it means we
are invited to become last so that others might be first.
Though not included in the lection, Mark 10:32 sets the stage for what
unfolds with two key pieces of information: the disciples and Jesus
are on their way to Jerusalem and those who followed were "afraid."
Are they afraid because they do not understand what Jesus is telling
them about what will happen to him in Jerusalem or because they are
beginning to absorb what he has been saying about his suffering and
death?
So when you hear James and John making their request for places of
honour, keep that context of following and fear in mind. The disciples
desire to remain close to Jesus -- why else would they follow down
such a road? However, just as they have misunderstood what awaits
Jesus in Jerusalem, misunderstanding now colours their desire to
remain close to Jesus. What they seek in terms of closeness is not an
imitating of Jesus' servanthood, but a granting of privileged
position. Their very approach ("we want you to do for us whatever we
ask of you") reverses the attitude of a servant (I want to do for you
whatever you ask of me).
As he did with opponents, Jesus responds to this question of the
disciples with a question of his own about what exactly they seek. The
places James and John identify have to do not only with proximity, but
also with authority. But note how Jesus answers them. He could have
said at the outset that such places were not his to grant, as he will
in verse 40. But that would have allowed no room to explore their
commitment. A question, and a confident answer, about a cup and
baptism are raised. Cup carries meanings of joy and suffering in the
Hebrew scriptures. Baptism, as Paul will later identify, involves
sharing death as well as sharing life. The two disciples eager for
places of honour offer a quick affirmation as to their ability to
drink Christ's cup and share Christ's baptism. They do want to be
close to Jesus, they just misunderstand what that will mean.
The second scene brings an aggrieved ten into Jesus' presence. They
are angry with James and John -- though the text is silent whether it
is anger at having made such a request, or anger they did not speak up
first. Jesus' answer to them suggests the latter may be true. Jesus'
words to the ten clarify that the community to be fashioned among
those who follow him is to be of a different order than what one
encounters elsewhere. The distinction lies precisely in the issue of
privilege and greatness. Among disciples, greatness comes in
servanthood. Our "place" in community finds expression not in what
rank we can pull over persons or what authority we can exercise above
others, but in what service we render in their midst. To be close to
Jesus comes by engaging in Jesus' living of life for others.
So Jesus would transform the community who would follow him, then and
now, with the upside-down gospel that the really important ones are
those who lose themselves in service. The footnote to this narrative
is: James and John become the servant leaders of the Jerusalem church.
Tradition holds that they did drink the cup of martyrdom.
I don't believe Jesus was telling James & John to try to work their
way up from the bottom at all. I think he was telling them there is no
such thing as the right and left hand of God. We serve each other and
share the same cup, the same baptism. I like to believe that when we
are in the presence of God, we are in one huge circle -- there is no
right or left hand. And inside the circle, touching each and every
person, is Jesus, sharing the cost and joy of his cup and baptism with
us. Janel in ND
Janel, I think the working the way to the top analogy was indicating
that often the ones who render the most service to an organization are
the ones with the lowest status in it. Not always, of course, but
often. "Be humble and serve and you will be rewarded by God with some
real measure of greatness in his eyes" is one of the messages here.
Jesus mentions "becoming great", which certainly suggests "to move up"
from "being last". It is very much like the parable of the wedding
feast where the guest who chooses to sit at the foot of the table is
invited to sit next to the host.
However, I do really like your thought of no right and no left hand of
Jesus. We are all there together. I like that a lot. As Sally in GA
said, when we all kneel, we're all side by side.
KHC
Susan in Wa.
I always get a chuckle at the mental image of the church with the pew
that would move automatically to the front of the church.
Unfortunately, the story where I originally heard it included a trap
door behind the pulpit that opened precisely at noon. Always parity
between the clergy and the laity. Mike in Soddy Daisy, TN
Okay, just a thought here: in all of this discussion, it begins with
James and John asking JC if they can sit on either side of him when he
comes into his glory.
Not if, but when.
In all this discussion, and it may have all sorts of wrong motivations
coming out of it, but J&J are truly beginning to "get it." JC will
come into his glory and they get it. wow. And, not only do they get
it, but they want to stay by Jesus. Do they understand exactly what
that means? No. Do any of us really? But they want to be there and
they're hearts think they are willing to drink that cup with him.
There's something to be said for that.
MM in PA
Mike in Soddy Daisy,
You heard a trap door behind the pulpit that opens precisely at noon?
Yeah, I heard that too! I have a few in my church who would use it if
they had one! Thank goodness we are short on the budget for that
particular addition to the sanctuary!
Susan in Wa.
To all,
if you think of it around 9am Western time, if you could please pray
for a 41 year old woman in my congregation who is having an MRI
tomorrow to rule out bone cancer. She is a smoker, and is a recovering
alcoholic who has been sober for about 3 years now, has come to the
Lord with her whole family, and has just come miles in terms of her
life and recovery and who she has become. Depending on what happens
with the MRI, she may have to go for a bone biopsy in Seattle. She and
her whole family and I have become very close and her children are my
godchildren. So, this is very hard on me too. I am trying to be strong
for her, and I am also fearful for what could easily be the journey I
may have to walk with her. So prayers would be appreciated. Susan in
Wa.
Thanks everyone - I'm a new observer but many of you also joined me in
the pulpit last week - got good reviews too!!! so well done. On the
other side of the world it's great to sense to respect and common
purpose of so many different people. RCin UCA@OZ
This is a first time contributor from Connecticut. Reading the lesson,
I'm reminded of an interview I watched on C-Span's program, "Book
Notes" between Brian Lamb and Pulitzer Prize winning author, Joseph
Ellis (who's presently serving a year's suspension at Mt. Holyoke
College for embellishing his resume to indicate that he was a Vietnam
Veteran.) Ellis told Brian Lamb that he had been teaching a class on
the great correspondence between Thomas Jefferson and John Adams and
would always begin the first day of class by asking a simple question,
"If you could have lunch with either Thomas Jefferson or John Adams,
who would you choose?" Ellis then said that every single one of the
students selected Thomas Jefferson. At the conclusion of the semester,
he would ask the same question. Having read the correspondence between
Adams and Jefferson, he asked who they would now choose to have lunch
with. Without exception, every student chose Adams this time. Brian
Lamb asked Joseph Ellis what happened to change their minds. Ellis
responded that one student succinctly put it this way, "Thomas
Jefferson told you what you wanted to hear. John Adams told you what
you needed to hear." The point here is that people trust those who
tell them the truth, even if it's sometimes difficult to hear. Jesus
does that with His disciples when he says, "Whoever wishes to become
great among you must be your servant, and whoever wishes to be first
among you must be slave of all."
I am also intrigued by the boldness of James' and John's response to
Jesus: "We are able." Sometimes I find, in my own ministry, that I set
the disciples up as straw men for the weaknesses we all share. Perhaps
we lose sight of just how incredibly courageous and bold the disciples
truly were [James and John are living examples of this week's Epistle
from Hebrews: "Let us, therefore, approach the throne of grace with
boldness, so that we may receive mercy and find grace to help in time
of need.". James, for example, did drink from the bitter cup that
Jesus promised, and was the only apostle who's martyrdom is mentioned
in the New Testament (Acts 12:2). After the resurrection John
continues to be prominent because of his close association with Peter
(Acts 3:1; 8:14).
I'm fascinated with the tie-in to last week's Gospel when the
disciples asked Jesus, "How is this possible?" and our Lord responds,
"With mortals it is impossible, but with God all things are possible."
When we are brave enough to surrender our egos and souls to the grace
of God, "we are able" to do great things because God is with us. How
wonderful to have that confidence, a confidence born of God that "we
are able" to do all things through God who strengthens us.
Fatherjoyful
KHC!!! Calling KentuckyHoosierCat!!!
I tried to e-mail you again and I again got a message that delivery is
delayed.
I know you're out for a couple weeks, but I'm hoping you'll check in
and see this.
Sally in GA
I'm not preaching this week (my daughter's high school band is
marching in the Bands of America competition in Arlington this
Saturday, and my wife and I are going to stay over Saturday night and
visit a couple of Presbyterian churches on Sunday morning)but I did
want to share with you a powerful example of servant leadership from
of all places, one of the earliest episodes of Touched By an Angel.
Gregory Harrison plays a homeless vet, out on the streets. The young
angel Monica finds him and befriends him. At one point, she takes the
rags off his feet, and begins to wash his feet. The man thanks her,
telling her that its been a long time since anyone has done anything
like that for him. And monice replies, "I'm not just doing this for
you, you know. I'm doing this because I need to be reminded of who I
am"
As did James and John and as do the rest of us.
Grace and Peace;
revgilmer in texarkana
Sally in GA.
I'm still here. I'm still at kyhoosiercat@hotmail.com, too. I do NOT
understand why your e-mails won't come through! I got a message from a
DPS'er just this morning at that address..... I gave an alternate
address earlier this week: UCMA_unitedinChrist@msn.com You can try
that if you'd like.
Sorry to be so much trouble, but I would love to hear from you. I'm
enjoying hearing from folks.
KyHoosierCat
Thanks, KHC - I'll give the new addy a try.
MM in MN - thanks for bringing up the "when" in the "when you come
into your glory..." that really gives a richer flavor to the text.
And, I do believe you're right .. it shows some growth on the
disciples' part.
OK, now on to my conundrum this week, or should I say "cognitive
dissonance?" Leading our churches, we must consider ourselves to be
"better" to some degree. We're the ones who supposedly learned how to
lead congregations and "do" ministry (whatever "doing" ministry means)
- and we're the ones charged with the leadership of our congregations.
Yet, to be "disciples," we are to serve others. In the UMC, at our
ordination, the Bishop says "take authority as an elder/deacon in the
church ..." It appears that this is contraindicated by Jesus' words.
I ALWAYS get "caught" with this. I'm not above scrubbing toilets. I'm
not above making my own bulletins. I'm not above cooking grilled
cheese sandwiches for our soup-n-sandwich supper. Nonetheless, at some
point I must "take authority" and preach/proclaim. I must "take
authority" and teach a class. I must "take authority" and encourage
the various committees. I must "take authority" and serve communion.
It's a conundrum. I can neither advocate the old "hippie" leadership,
where there's no defined leader. (I say defined, because all groups
will have a leader, whether officially or not. It's the nature of
group dynamics), nor can I advocate a top-down delineated hierarchy. I
use the extremes simply to illustrate.
Or, maybe I'm all wet and should surrender my credentials.
Sally
revgilmer in Texarkana -
My hesitation to fully embrace that is that our congregants will sit
back and "let" us wash their feet. Without some kind of conscious,
overt direction, they'll begin to see themselves as our dependents and
never learn to be servant-leaders themselves.
Sally in gA
I do not think that Jesus is advocating that we bome welcome mats for
our congreagations or that we not have power or be leaders. Rather it
is how we act as leaders.
In community organizing, one of the goals is to make church people
understand that power is not bad in itself. The variable is how and
what is it used for. The bad thing is powerlessness (whether we have
it or we inflict it on someone else.) Many good church people elect to
have no power and end up being steam-rolled by people in society who
do not have good intentions and are not driven by the Gospel of Jesus.
The hair-splitting question in this story is then, were John and James
in this instance driven by the Gospel of Jesus, or were they driven by
their own need for glory? jw in tx
PH in OH, Perhaps this will be of some help:One of the most remarkable
letters in American history was written by Thomas Jefferson to John
Adams. They had been friends at one time and then became alienated.
Their differences had been bridged and Jefferson is now replying to a
letter he had received from Adams. This is what Jefferson wrote: A
letter from you… carries me back to the times when, beset with
difficulties and dangers, we were fellow-laborers in the same cause,
struggling for what is most valuable.. laboring always at the same
oar, with some wave ahead threatening to overwhelm us...we knew not
how we rode through the storm with heart and hand, and made happy
port...no circumstances have lessened. For one moment my sincere
esteem for you, and I now salute you with unchanged affection and
respect. The bond that held their friendship together was their common
endeavor on behalf of this nation. His metaphor of “laboring at the
same oar” is interesting. Craig
PH in OH You may also wish to look at Peachtree Presbyterian Church (peachtreepres.org),
register (free) and look for Dr. W Frank Harrington's sermon on "Am I
traveling alone". Craig
"Teacher, we want you to do for us whatever we ask of you."
I remember the Bishop of New Hampshire (thirty plus years ago) told
me, as a young curate to watch out for those folks in the parish who
will "buck" you to death. Those with the least commitment will demand
more and expect more from you than anyone else.
It was an important lesson for me, and here, through my hearing (now
30 years later) I hear James and John wanting to be treated "special"
because of their sacrifice.
All of us want to be treated special. We all need to know that what we
do matters to others, and that we are held in a good light by those
who know us. We can't fault James and John, for they are truly us.
Perhaps the reason the other disciples got a little irritated at them
was that they didn't think of asking their question first.
But in my congregation, those who wish to be treated specially are not
disciples or followers, they don't live sacrificial lives, they are
cultural christians who are seeking to get just enough medicine to
prevent them from catching the real thing. The want, and want, and
want ... they will wear you out if you let them. They don't understand
or desire to know their calling to make their way toward the Cross.
If I can only help them embrace a new way of seeing and living this
Sunday. Helping them know themselves as special because they have been
called by Christ to be his disciples then we may be on our way toward
moving them to a different place in their spiritual lives.
tom in ga
Sally in GA, I understand where you're coming from. Sometimes I think
as pastors we ask to be put on a pedestal and it does seem that this
text counters that idea. The kindest thing a congregant ever said
about me was (to her teenage son after we met him for breakfast at his
college) "She's not like a pastor. She's just one of us." Isn't it
ironic that the Christian bookstores have created Pastor Appreciation
Month and in the midst of it, we are preaching this text? Perhaps it's
a good time to remind folks that church isn't about or by the pastor
and to encourage their participation in our covenantal relationships
with them! A pastor friend recently told his interim church board, "I
don't want to be doing all the praying. You pray!" And they did,
beautifully. By letting go of the things we think ought to be our
right or responsibility, we open up all kinds of creative thoughts in
those we serve! Janel in ND
They were brothers. Once brothers, forever brothers. They used to be
fishermen. Not struggling kind of fishermen mind you, but the kind
that owned a family fishing company and had hired hands, a.k.a
servants. They Zebedee boys were used to be at the head table with
their daddy, one sitting on the right and the other on the left at
places of honor.
They were in the boat with their dad when Jesus saw them and called
them. "Come follow me" he said. And I will make you fishers of folk.
We get to this chapter and are disappointed. Ought to be disappointed.
Seems like one can take the fisherman out of the world, but can one
take the world out of the fisherman?
James and John come to Jesus with “worldly concerns”. Their concerns
are not the concerns of those who are called to be disciples. Their
concerns are of those who own the boat like they used to. Sitting on
the right hand of Jesus and on his left hand, perhaps like they used
to with their daddy.
To follow Jesus takes a whole paradigm shift on how to do
relationships.
In talking about hospitality earlier, I thought of something that
happened to me and hope it will inspire some of you. It had a huge
effect on me. I'm a Lutheran too, so some of the jokes about sitting
at the back and not always being welcoming made me laugh. Anyway, When
I was in college I decided to go to church one Sunday morning. Not
easy to go by yourself when you're 19-20. I'm 27 now and it's not much
easier. There was a pew open in the back and I sat there. I don't
remember her name, but an elderly woman came up to me and said, "Are
you a college student dear." "yes," I responded. Her reply, "I would
like to sit with you so you don't have to sit alone. If it's alright
with you, would you come sit closer to the front with me? I have a
hard time hearing if I'm not near the front." Of course I went and sat
w/ her and that became the only church I attended. I had sat in
several other churches and noone ever even said "hi." This woman
changed everything. I often wonder how often she made this difference
at the church and if she ever knew. I know I'll never forget her. I
think about her alot, and in this text I think of her too. She wasn't
going for authority or power. She was living out her calling and Jesus
used her life and proclaimed the gospel through her. You can't always
teach that, but I hope we can always preach it. LN
Sally in GA wrote: So, do I lead by being the servant of all, doing
whatever they request? I think not. Where is the biblical precedent
for boundaries?
Try this one: "I am your servant, but you are not my Master."
Take thou the authority to equip the saints and empower them for the
work of ministry.
YellArose!nTx
When I first began on this text, as I was sketching out the sermons
for the months of October and November I was ready to give everybody a
good (and I still content, a needed) trouncing. Since summer my church
seems whinny and complaining, beginning to bicker about the new ones
taking over and the boy scouts not cleaning up after themselves and
the after-school program wasting snacks. I was winding up for a good
one but then something horrible happened that made the whole week and
text and everything shift. A young woman, who was the wife of a Cuban
lay pastor who had worked at our church’s Hispanic ministry, died
suddenly in a car crash. They had just moved to a new church at the
last appointment change and though their lives intersected with ours
only for a moment really they both touched us deeply. I am especially
close to the husband as I helped him through the year he waited for
his wife’s arrival. Now I’m not up for giving my congregation a
trouncing. I just want to hear the good news preached. I want to find
some answer or some comfort in the thick sadness. She was only 25, had
just come from Cuba 13 months ago, was a young but vibrant Christian.
Can this text help me this week? Avis in Louisville
Of course it can help you. But that really isn't the question you were
asking, was it. Whether it can or can't help you, you are being prayed
for...
AB in NE
Jesus Christ left his home in heaven to be a witness to God's love for
all people and to serve in God's name. He was the example of love that
we are asked to emulate the best we can, risking all to be faithful in
our journey. While Jesus knew his death was coming, and why, we know
our lives may be called up at any time, and that God has prepared a
place at his right or at his left. This sounds like really good news
to me.
LN at your comment about being Lutheran I had this flash in my mind
how we play our denominations unwittingly as this or that. I am
working on how this applies to the text but somehow it seems we need
to all be on even. Geesh this is really getting bad. Don't we like the
disciples seem to put ourselves up front even without thinking and if
not personally by some umbrella? I don't know just struck me as
curious thought. WaynO in NE
Fatherjoyful..Thank you for your thoughtful posting...This text is
talkin' to me too...Truth-telling (especially unpopular truth-telling)
is risky business. Heaven forbid that we might be "unpopular"! And yet
that's exactly what Jesus is pointing to. It's a fine line we
walk...needing to be in good-enough graces to be heard, and yet called
to the hard places of truth. It does take courage to surrender our
egos and our desires to be liked to the grace of God so that "we are
able" to say and to do what God has called us to do. I'm praying for
that confidence as I prepare this week...for me and for all of us! KO
in SC
I'm thinking aloud, and would appreciate any thoughts... reactions-
"and whoever wishes to be first among you must be slave of all."
This is the third time in recent weeks we've heard this-- last week we
had "The first shall be last and the last shall be first." and several
weeks ago in chapter 9 we had "Whoever wants to be first must be last
of all and servant of all."
Thinking along these lines- God embodies this idea "I am the alpha and
the omega"- again spoken 3 times in the Revelation.
God calls us to be slave, servants, last
Last is not the place we want to be-
Remember gym class- picking teams- who wanted to be picked last- yet
jesus calims this is an honor-- another situation where the good news
is foolishness to us
Promise here- too- Those of us us whp feel dead last in the world have
a chance- Joseph waho was last- a slave and a prisioner in a foriegn
land became a leader- from last to first. From slave to leader
Mother Teresa embodied concept of servantohood. Her love for people
made her famous.
sometimes we don't see the reversal in this life Jesus told a parable
about the poor man named Lazarus who sat at the gate of the rich man-
that reversal took place after death
James and John have asked for a great thing- but they are still not
getting it. Jesus has warned them of his death they still don't get
it.
Are James and John still envisioning a coup in Jerusalem? Are they
expecting Jesus to become an Earthly King here? They are looking to
secure their future and agree to drink the cup of suffering before
they even understand what they are agreeing too. Michele in PA
The T. Jefferson and J. Adams analogy is an interesting thought.
Fatherjoyful points out that many prefer Adams because he tells not
what you want to hear but what you need to hear. As a rule, that is a
good thing. But, all too often, in the real world, there is a great
deal of flexibility on what we "need to hear". Sometimes people do hit
the nail on the head, and we need to listen up. But all too often, the
person has an ax to grind and finds great pleasure in "telling you
what you need to know".
I have discovered that in order for me to pay any real attention to
what I need to hear from you, you must first earn the right to tell it
to me. I am not going to listen to everyone who simply wants to have
the authority to straighten me out. First, earn my respect. Then talk
to me about what I need to hear.
Jesus had authority not only because he had impeccable credentials,
but also because he knew how to demonstrate God's love. The people
respected him more for his conduct and gentleness than because of his
Ordination at Baptism and Transfiguration. Because of the way he
simply flowed with respect for people, respect was his to claim, and
he could tell them what they needed to hear. Had he come in waving his
pedigree, he would have never had the following he got.
KHC
However much good our serving the poor, the outcast, etc. does, it
doesn't count as giving our life in slavery if we're actually serving
from a position of power or status.
Sally
Our church will ne marking World Food Day (Oct 16) with a "3rd World
Awareness" meal after church. A few will be selected to sit at a table
with a lovely and plentiful lunch and the majority will sit on the
floor against the walls and have crackers and water. I am thinking of
having a couple of "plants" in the select group who will say, "You
know, we could share with the others, even though we were told that
this meal was just for us." Wonderful things could be learned about
stepping out of the box society has placed us in. Thanks and Blessings
to all. LGB
LGB, you may not need the plants seated at the elite table. You may
have the table rushed by the cracker and water group. We're not used
to being set aside and given second best. We're used to taking
whatever we want - at the very least, being bold enough to go up and
demand it, like the disciples did of Jesus.
KHC
Hmmm... I'm still trying to come up with a title and a conversation I
had with my husband this AM comes to mind.
Our older daughter is having a rough time in cross country. She hasn't
worn her letter jacket for 2 days. This year, though her times are
good, there are 2 others who are better. She's no longer the
"fair-haired girl," but, as my husband said, "an also-ran." She's
taking this hard, especially because one of the girls with a faster
time (3 minutes faster) waltzed in during the middle of the season and
has really poor form - plus, rumor has it she'll be allowed to earn a
letter. Then this girl's mom, a teacher in the school, said to my
daughter, "We need you to come in right behind A. at state." My
daughter was insulted, though I think that woman is just a nerd. On
the mom side, I'm dealing with it, and i would NEVER use her
struggling through her jealousy as an illustration, but the term
"also-ran" has come to mind.
I'm wondering how wide-spread this term is and whether it would work
as a title. Aren't we all like those disciples - mad, and, when you
get right down to it, jealous of those who wish to be first? Those of
us "also-rans" who didn't get elected (would those be the Bob Doles of
the disciple world?). All of us "also-ran" disciples? Those "also-ran"
preachers who never get appointed to a steepled church? Or how about
the "also-ran" churches who never seem to be able to pull it together
to do ministry.
How does the title "Also-Ran Disciples" grab you? And do you have any
other suggestions?
Sally in GA
Avis in Louisville -
You, that lay pastor, and your congregations have my prayers.
LaJo
LGB:
I wouldn't use the plants. The suggestion to share might happen
naturally... or not. That's part of the awareness-raising. After all,
folks might easily figure out what the "right" thing to do was, but
the challenge for many of us is to break out of the mold and do or say
something that no one else seems to be willing to do.
And you never know what might occur during the week to follow, even if
the table doesn't extend their invitation to the masses around the
wall.
LaJo
LN: I am 27 also. Would love to talk with you sometime about what it's
like to be young and in ministry. edenegress@yahoo.com ~Desiree in
Sacramento~
Sally in GA, I was a competitive swimmer from age 4 all the way
through my freshman year of college. I was on a nationally-ranked AAU
team. My JrHi/HS team won the State Title 7 years in a row. I was
never a star swimmer, but I never missed a practice or a meet or
failed to try my best. My coach had lots of Also Swam's on his team.
He understood that it was NOT the stars who brought home the team
trophy, but it was the B team (the "bench" in other sports), the
regular swimmers who only got one point here and one point there for
the team who really mounted up the points. Once I got it though my
head that there could only be a few of the very best swimmers, I
relaxed and enjoyed just being part of a winning team. After all, we
all got to throw the coach in the water and take part in the big
celebration! In fact, one year, at the Awards banquet, he announced
that he was expected to hand out a plaque for Most Valuable Swimmer.
He handed out an MVS placque to every single one of us, saying every
point we earned went toward making us the champs. I never forgot that,
and it is the only one of my swimming trophies and medals on display
in my den.
This isn't going to help your daughter deal with the rude comments of
that CC coach, but I thought about my old swimming days when I read
your post. Maybe you can find something in there to use as an
illustration. If not, OK. I was just thinking about being the "lesser"
disciples having as big an impact on Christianity as the Big 3 did.
(Peter, James and John)
KHC
+++ How often do we try to tell God/Jesus what needs to happen. +++
"Teacher, we want you to do for us whatever we ask of you."
Michelle PA -- I like your take on this. I think I'll go with a sermon
on prayer. What do we ask for? How do we ask? What does it look like
when our prayers are more than just a wish list...
I found this on a sermon illustration website: If the request is
wrong, God says, "No." If the timing is wrong, God says, "Slow." If
you are wrong, God says, "Grow." But if the request is right, the
timing is right and you are right, God says, "Go!" Bill Hybels, Too
Busy Not To Pray, IVP, p. 74.
It's pretty simplistic, but the idea is neat.
Perhaps our prayer life needs to move beyond courtesy words: (Thank
you, God... Sorry, God... Please, God...) to deeper questions like
Who? What? Where? How? Why?
I think when prayer moved to those deeper levels, it's then that we
start to hear our call to servant leadership so profoundly that it
becomes uncomfortable and even impossible to ignore.
I'm hoping this sermon will set the stage for our Stewardship Sunday
next week.
Yes, it's Thursday afternoon, and I'm just getting around to my
initial thoughts...
Carrie in NY
Friends,
We are funny ducks, all of us humans. As a father, if my kids asked me
which one of them I loved the best, I'd always answer that I loved
them all the same. But when I'm the kid, I want to think that I'm
loved the best. If we could only put ourselves in the place of the
parent for a change, maybe we'd remember how it hurts the other
children when we wish to be first and best.
I'm heading that direction for Sunday. But I think I'll also invite
the congregation to think of one specific circumstance in the coming
week when they can step aside from being #1 to let somebody else go
first. (e.g. getting in line at the grocery store, driving on the
turnpike, letting a husband/wife/friend get a word in a conversation,
complimenting someone for doing a task better than I could, etc.)
Tim in Deep River
For what it's worth, I'm 27 as well.
We're just starting our stewardship campaign this Sunday, lasting two
weeks, with pledges coming in on November 2nd. Our theme this year is
"Faith Raising, not Fund Raising" with an emphasis on how our giving
to the church helps increase our own faith and also how it helps
increase the faith of others (through the ministries the church is
able to offer). Enclosed in the stewardship packets is a devotional
series on stewardship issues, a pictoral budget that shows the
figures, photos, and descriptions of the ministries the church offers,
and a copy of the recently embraced vision for our church that
outlines some new expenses that might be involved in making the vision
a reality.
With two sermons before we bring our pledges to "Faith Raising Sunday"
I'd like to focus on raising the faith of others with one sermon, with
how giving raises our own faith with the other. I guess I'm wondering
if folks think that using this passage and focusing on the 'being
servants to all' and 'the Son of Man came not to be served but to
serve' could tie in to the idea that our giving is a form of service
to those who are impacted by the ministries we fund. Is that too
convoluted? Too much of a stretch? Any thoughts?
*BKW in IL
was struck by the whole idea of leader ship in the Gospel (and the
further explication of that type of leadership we find in the Hebrews
passage). Leadership is a tricky thing in the church. For a while now
the UCCan has had people saying that in trying to back away from a
"minister as boss" model which never really existed the church has
denigrated leadership to the point that few want to take the lead. But
that is not what we need. We need people who are willing to lead and
share a vision but remember that it is the vision and the people who
are important, not the leader. I would say that this is exactly the
style of Christ's leadership. He always made sure that people, not the
law, were more important and he had a clear vision of how the world
could be -- a vision that he lived fully even though it led to his
persecution and death.
Servant leadership, visioning leadership is difficult. To make it work
we have to let go of our own need to be seen as important. To make it
work we have to embrace the others around us. To make it work we have
to be willing to risk putting ourselves in harms way in order that the
vision and those we serve will benefit. Maybe this is what it means to
be a high priest of the suffering God -- not golden ephods but risk
and servantood.
At the same time I am reminded how the Hebrew Scriptures have a
definite tension between the desire to have a king "like other
nations" and the contention of SAmuel speaking for YHWH that kings are
not a good idea. Maybe here we come round full circle and are reminded
that we are not to seek or to be leaders in the usual sense of the
word.
Gord Waldie Atikokan ON
Thank you all for helping me work through the texts each week. You are
all a great blessing to me. A couple of contributers mentioned college
students in their notes this week. Here is a friendly reminder from
this WI campus minister: Tell your college students to check out the
ministries on their campuses! Most every campus has a multitide of
ministries from mainline churches to parachurch organizations.
Literally, a theology is available for everyone. We will take care of
you loved ones, nurture them, preach and teach the Gospel and send
them back to you at school breaks. P2 in WI
BKW in IL,
Sounds to me like you're right on track. Great way to use this text.
Michelle
Sally in GA,
I've never heard the term, "also-ran," but I know what you mean. Yes,
we are angry at those who wish to be first, and probably jealous of
those who are better at some particular thing. But I believe mostly we
are angry with ourselves, for not being "the best," regardless of
whether that is even physically possible. I am not built to be a
runner, it's not in my genes. I can run, but I cannot be the fastest
(unless the rest decide to take a nap like the hare). But that is
little consolation.
Your daughter can run, and she has earned her jacket, even though A.
may be faster. She can either give up, or go on and continue to do her
best. A. may even become a challenge to her.
The good news is that the gospel is for the last no less than the
first. The one who crosses the line ahead of me will get no greater
reward than I. I can keep plugging away while others seem to pass me
by, because God's promise will still be there at the end of the line.
Michelle
Thanks, KHC and Michelle -
KHC, this is too funny, but I was a swimmer, too. Not for nearly as
long of a time as you, nor as advanced, but I was a sprinter, and it
was while I was swimming after work one day in the Summer that I was
called into ministry.
Well, I'm not sure about the "also ran" term, either. I don't think
it's well-known enough to make a cute little title. Yet, I, too, am
drawn to the "middle" disciples. After all, that's the vast majority.
I once entitled a sermon "Fanfare for the Common Disciple" after
Copland's "Fanfare for the Common Man." But I never really liked that
title, either.
I think I'm going to call mine "Hey, What about Me?" or "Me, Too! Me,
Too!"
Sally in GA
I was in a terrible fender-bender this AM. and I'm still shaken up a
bit. I've got a rental car.
Oh, and my heart is out to all you 27-year-olds.
I'm 41 and STILL get, "oh, but you're too young to understand ..." It
gets tiresome. What folks mean is that they're not interested in doing
or learning or singing anything other than what they already know.
Where is it written that life comes to a grinding halt the day you
turn 60?
Sally
Hello everyone,
I wanted to thank you for prayers for the young mom in my congregation
who was having the MRI to rule out bone cancer. She got the results
this morning, and they did not see anything on the MRI, other than a
possible tear in her shoulder. She is being referred to an orthopedic
specialist. Thank you so much!1
Susan in Wa.
