Scripture Text (NRSV)
10:17 As he was setting out on a journey, a man ran up and knelt
before him, and asked him, "Good Teacher, what must I do to inherit
eternal life?"
10:18 Jesus said to him, "Why do you call me good? No one is good but
God alone.
10:19 You know the commandments: 'You shall not murder; You shall not
commit adultery; You shall not steal; You shall not bear false
witness; You shall not defraud; Honor your father and mother.'"
10:20 He said to him, "Teacher, I have kept all these since my youth."
10:21 Jesus, looking at him, loved him and said, "You lack one thing;
go, sell what you own, and give the money to the poor, and you will
have treasure in heaven; then come, follow me."
10:22 When he heard this, he was shocked and went away grieving, for
he had many possessions.
10:23 Then Jesus looked around and said to his disciples, "How hard it
will be for those who have wealth to enter the kingdom of God!"
10:24 And the disciples were perplexed at these words. But Jesus said
to them again, "Children, how hard it is to enter the kingdom of God!
10:25 It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than
for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God."
10:26 They were greatly astounded and said to one another, "Then who
can be saved?"
10:27 Jesus looked at them and said, "For mortals it is impossible,
but not for God; for God all things are possible."
10:28 Peter began to say to him, "Look, we have left everything and
followed you."
10:29 Jesus said, "Truly I tell you, there is no one who has left
house or brothers or sisters or mother or father or children or
fields, for my sake and for the sake of the good news,
10:30 who will not receive a hundredfold now in this age--houses,
brothers and sisters, mothers and children, and fields with
persecutions--and in the age to come eternal life.
10:31 But many who are first will be last, and the last will be
first."
Comments:
I like the way Jesus disapoints the rich young man and then turns
right around and disapoints Peter and the other disciples with verse
31. It's like He says; "Yea, you guys HAVE been able to do what he
can't, and you WILL be rewarded. But don't get too wrapped up in
yourselves over it, God may take HIM into heaven as well, and may even
put HIM ahead of YOU in the grand eternal scheme of things."
Lake O Pilgrim.
I am not preaching this week (two weeks vacation) but I just want to
say to Eric in OH that I'm glad you're back. It seems fitting that in
a week when the subject was broken relationships, you found it in your
heart to try this one again.
Grace and peace, JKS
I was reading this gospel text and it struck me that it was as much
about rewards as it was about riches. Then I came across this
intriguing little quote from CS Lewis:
"We are afraid that heaven is a bribe, and that if we make it our goal
we shall no longer be disinterested. It is not so. Heaven offers
nothing that a mercenary soul can desire. It is safe to tell the pure
in heart that they shall see God, for only the pure in heart want
to."
-C.S. Lewis, The Problem of Pain.
The rich young man was kneeling before God and he seemed to know it,
but he turned and walked away from God--grieving--but still he walked
away.
Do you think that despite his having kept the commandments and being
loved by Jesus, his wealth made him too mercenary? That he was not
pure of heart enough to long to see God?
I'm surely as wealthy as that man. Do my wealth and creature comforts
keep me from having a heart pure enough to long to see God? Will it
take a miracle from God--the equivalent of putting a camel through the
eye of a needle--for me to enter the Kingdom of Heaven?
If I continue to not sell what I have and give the money to the poor
do I walk away from God?
Wouldn't it be a shock to die and face God only to find out that all
these days right now while I lived so comfortably I've wasted despite
my church and ministry involvements because I kept too much material
wealth?
TiminOH
Tim in OH - yes, I'd be kind of shocked; not because I am under any
misconception that I have the authority to define "enough" when it
comes to giving material wealth, but because I'd be shocked to know
that it was THAT that kept me out. That God's grace wouldn't cover it.
I've always thought of this man's walking away as his walking away
from grace. He is walking away from the opportunity to trust God
(incidentally, people knelt before others who they deemed to be in
authority - not just before God as one post-er suggested). He is
walking away from the opportunity to know that his legally following
the commandments isn't all there is to a relationship with Jesus and
eternal life.
As always, v. 18 puzzles me, though. It sounds either harsh or, if
Jesus was genuinely puzzled, then just sounds kind of strange.
Who are the first and who are the last? It seems that we get into the
reverse of the kindergarten scuffle to be line leader when it comes to
the Kingdom. Yet, all we're doing is changing where the head of the
line is, reversing its direction. "I give more, I have less, I'm more
humble than ..." You get the idea. Oh, we'd never SPEAK these things,
but they're there. We walk away grieving, too, when we find that we
can't get to heaven by being good Christian people towing the party
line - just try to change something like the appearance of our worship
altar, or suggest a bolder outreach program. We don't like to hear
that THAT's involved. WE like to hear that we follow all the rules!
Early thoughts from ...
Sally in GA
I know its early yet, but does anyone have any god ideas for All
Saint's Sunday. I'm looking for a ritual that might bring healing or
remembrance. Any ideas?
NJ
I have a multi-millionaire or two in my congregation. They got that
way because they hold onto their funds with vise grips. They turn in
bills for $8.00 and $3.50 to be reimbursed for communion grape juice
or some bulletins they picked up while they know the church struggles
every month. But I am not planning to use this text as a platform for
blasting them for loving their money. That is their decision, and no
matter what I say from the pulpit in Christian love or in indignant
posturing, they will not change. Fortunately, they do not use their
money as a weapon to make threats if things don't go their way!
Once again, your resident "Spirit of the Texter" thinks this may have
nothing really to do with money in a literal sense. Maybe Jesus is
just saying "empty yourself of the things that do not have eternal
qualities about them. Your concern needs to be for people who are in
need (where the texts have been recently) and your relationship to
God. Period." Money is just one thing that does not have eternal
qualities about it. There are scores of other beloved stumbling blocks
that stand in the way to a full emptying of ourselves for Christ's
sake.
Now, having said this text may not be about money, this thought runs
through my mind: If anyone could have used this rich man's treasure
for their own use, it would be Jesus and the 12. Imagine what they
could have done with it! All the ministry and mission they could have
set up in the little villages. But, money was a hindrance. If money
were the "power" behind the ministry, that would have left Jesus' own
Power out in the cold. Jesus told him to be rid of it, use it for good
and loving purposes and THEN follow him. Rely on Jesus alone, even
when it's scary and different from what you're accustomed to relying
on.
Just like last week's discourse on divorce, this text speaks to the
difference between Law and Love. We can keep the Commandments by not
murdering or robbing someone, but still not love that person. Love is
an active verb, it is what Christians DO, THINK, FEEL. The Law is what
we are told to refrain from doing (mostly).
I have long believed that the part about things being returned
hundredfold simply meant that when we receive Christ, we all become
brothers and sisters, mi casa es su casa, community abounds, and the 2
brothers and 1 sister we left behind because they did not become
followers (we touched on that a little bit a few weeks ago, too) will
be "replaced" with spiritual brothers and sisters. Jesus said that
himself in another setting: "Who is my mother, who are my brothers?"
This is just first-read thinking. It will evolve over the next few
days.
KyHoosierCat
I have a multi-millionaire or two in my congregation. They got that
way because they hold onto their funds with vise grips. They turn in
bills for $8.00 and $3.50 to be reimbursed for communion grape juice
or some bulletins they picked up while they know the church struggles
every month. But I am not planning to use this text as a platform for
blasting them for loving their money. That is their decision, and no
matter what I say from the pulpit in Christian love or in indignant
posturing, they will not change. Fortunately, they do not use their
money as a weapon to make threats if things don't go their way!
Once again, your resident "Spirit of the Texter" thinks this may have
nothing really to do with money in a literal sense. Maybe Jesus is
just saying "empty yourself of the things that do not have eternal
qualities about them. Your concern needs to be for people who are in
need (where the texts have been recently) and your relationship to
God. Period." Money is just one thing that does not have eternal
qualities about it. There are scores of other beloved stumbling blocks
that stand in the way to a full emptying of ourselves for Christ's
sake.
Now, having said this text may not be about money, this thought runs
through my mind: If anyone could have used this rich man's treasure
for their own use, it would be Jesus and the 12. Imagine what they
could have done with it! All the ministry and mission they could have
set up in the little villages. But, money was a hindrance. If money
were the "power" behind the ministry, that would have left Jesus' own
Power out in the cold. Jesus told him to be rid of it, use it for good
and loving purposes and THEN follow him. Rely on Jesus alone, even
when it's scary and different from what you're accustomed to relying
on.
Just like last week's discourse on divorce, this text speaks to the
difference between Law and Love. We can keep the Commandments by not
murdering or robbing someone, but still not love that person. Love is
an active verb, it is what Christians DO, THINK, FEEL. The Law is what
we are told to refrain from doing (mostly).
I have long believed that the part about things being returned
hundredfold simply meant that when we receive Christ, we all become
brothers and sisters, mi casa es su casa, community abounds, and the 2
brothers and 1 sister we left behind because they did not become
followers (we touched on that a little bit a few weeks ago, too) will
be "replaced" with spiritual brothers and sisters. Jesus said that
himself in another setting: "Who is my mother, who are my brothers?"
This is just first-read thinking. It will evolve over the next few
days.
KyHoosierCat
ACKKK and Double AACCKKKKK. I know why it double posted - my internet
got disconnected and I thought I'd have to hit submit again. Well, I
didn't. Sorry --- and it's such a long post, too.....
Hi, I admit I have been reading discussion here for over a year. Thank
you, I so enjoy reading the discussion and you have provided insight
for many a sermon. I've never contributed before, but for some reason
I feel moved to do so this week, so I will. I don't think this gospel
is as much about money and blasting people for having it, but about
what keeps us from dependence on Jesus. Jesus asks the man about what
he needed to hear about what was holding him back, I think we can all
be asked that sort of question. I find it so interesting in the
question the man comes to Jesus to ask. What do I need to do to
inherit eternal life? When we inherit, when we are put in a will, we
are given something, we don't do something for it. Inheriting is
dependent on what the person leaves you, the action they take, not
something that you take. He wants to know what he can do, "how do I do
this on my own?" But in spite of him following all the rules, he
doesn't know if it it enough. So when all the people are asking, who
can be saved, Jesus says, With God all things are possible. Because
God is who gives us life, we inherit it through Christ, it is gift,
not something we take. The inheritance language, is what I think I'll
concentrate on.
As for All Saints. Last year I put river rocks in the baptismal font.
All the rocks are different to represent how our lives are different.
How the water of baptism and promises of God wash over all our lives
and change our lives. In the font together, we all were invited to
take a rock, to remember a person and so we remember the cloud of
witnesses, all the saint, living and those before. I was surprised
that one member of my congregation carries his in his change pocket in
memory of his best friend, the promise of God's love for both of them
and the promise that they will meet again. We leave the rocks in the
font all year round and invite families and sponsors to take one after
baptisms as a reminder of baptismal promises and remind them of
Christ's work in their lives. This has become part of the congregation
in a short time, which I think is really great. Well, thanks for
letting this long time lurker send out her musings for a bit. I hope I
get to contribute more. LN
Just a thought to ponder - the scriptures don't say that he did NOT go
and sell all he had, just that he felt bad.
Perhaps he felt bad because he was about to part with a lot of goodies
that he loved. Just thinking.
Binny
WERE there rich Jews in Israel who were not either royalty, "rulers"
or members of the Sanhedrin (Joseph of Arimathea)? Well, tax
collectors......
Wealth = power. By asking this man to give up his possessions, Jesus
was also asking him to give up his standing and whatever power he had.
We value ourselves by what we own or how others see us. We don't want
to risk being lowered in society's eyes. God values us differently.
Still just mulling this around.
KHC
Has anyone considered what Jesus might have done if the rich young man
had simply said, "OK" and headed off to do what Jesus asked.
I've always toyed with the notion that Jesus would have said, "Well,
that's OK. You don't really have to. I was just testing."
It seems to me that what is important is not the having of wealth or
material possessions. It is, rather, one's degree of attachment to
them. We are not asked to become penurious; we are asked to be
faithful stewards of that with which we have been entrusted.
Here, the rich young man's possessions and wealth were taking center
stage in his life and he was, apparently, unable to turn loose of
them. Had they not been in the center of his life (where they were
taking the position Jesus/God ought to hold), they would not have been
a stumbling block for him. Let's not forget that Jesus had wealthy
followers -- Joseph of Arimathea, for example, and all those women who
"follow[ed] him and provided for him when he was in Galilee" (Mark
15:41; cf. Matt. 27:55)
Blessings, Eric in OH
Jesus' offer to this man sounds much like his call to James and John
and Andrew and Peter. I wonder if Jesus was offering him a position in
the inner circle of disciples. If the man had accepted Jesus' offer
would there have been 13 disciples instead of 12?
This is the crux of the matter for me, because I perceive Jesus making
the same kind of offer to anyone who approaches him. The man was
interested in eternal life, but when Jesus told him what it would take
he went away grieving because the price was too high. His possessions
were more important to him than the eternal life he was inquiring
about. Life is made up of making decisions about priorities. Is this
more important than that? Would I give this up in order to acquire
that?
What things keep you and I from becoming the 13th disciple? Money and
possessions are not the only things that might be more important.
Substance abusers would have to give up the stuff that they have
depended on for years. Others would have to give up the pleasure of
lust and sex. Another would have to give up power, another would have
to give up a prestigious job, etc. There are all kinds of things in
life that can become more important than being a disciple. I'm
thinking of The Thirteenth Disciple as a title for this week's sermon.
Creature Wayne
Jesus has been teaching his disciples about what is most valued in
God's eyes. Now, a conversation with a rich man brings his message
home to the disciples in a way that is surprising but unforgettable.
Go! Sell! Give! Come! Follow! This word truly is a sword, dividing not
only joints from marrow, soul from spirit, but wallets from pockets.
These verbs of flint resist our efforts to temporize or qualify or
mute their force. "Go, sell all that you have and give it to the poor,
then come, follow me." How do we dare read and hear this word and then
go and continue to live as we have become accustomed? Hearing this
word, can we continue to live comfortably in this culture and economy?
What does this word say to the decent, faithful, religious folk in our
midst who try and live as "good" people? Here is a decent, faithful,
religious man who lives a good life and yet Jesus calls him out to a
new life.
We live in a society where we are consumed by possessions. In the
turning of everything into a commodity we discover that we too are no
longer homo sapiens but homo consumerus. Our lives are summed up not
only in actuary tables but in cost/benefit analyses of the risks of
pollution and determinations of how safe to make cars or regulate
drugs. In church life, we now talk of growth, markets, entrepreneurs,
and determining and meeting the needs of "our" customer.
How shall we who have not left family, home, or possessions respond to
this word? Perhaps we can only cling to the phrases; "Jesus, looking
at him, loved him" and "for mortals it is impossible, but not for God;
for God all things are possible." Cling to these phrases and pray that
we might have the courage to let go and become last so that others
might be first.
We believe that all we have is a gift from God. That is why we
celebrate Thanksgiving Day. Job knew he had been richly blessed, but
had all his possessions forcibly taken away by the very God who had
bestowed them. Through it all, he tried to remain trusting of God. I
don't recall Job crying out "what shall I wear, where shall I live,
who will provide for me?" The rich man no doubt believed he had
received a cornucopia of blessings from God; he appreciated them. Why
would he want to willingly relinquish them? Jesus gave him a challenge
and a choice: stick with the blessings he already knew, or step out
into a whole new uncertain future without them. He made his choice. He
believed he would be bereft of any blessings once he let loose of his
loot, and did not trust that God would continue to provide. So do we.
I bought a certificate of deposit at the bank, thinking of my
retirement. The money I put into that would have fed a family of 6 for
years somewhere in the world. What a step of faith it would have been
to turn that money over to God! But, it was easier for me to take care
of my own concerns and to not trust that God will provide for me in
the future. So, I walked into the bank, clutching my blessings from
God in my hand.......
KHC
In my congregation, v. 29 has an interesting tint. That is, that one
of our primary families has children whose only apparent reason to
worship with us is because of their parents. We're not talking about
minors, here - the same can be said for my children - we're talking
about middle aged men and women with nearly-grown children of their
own. They live too far away to participate in church life, or even
Sunday school.
Sometimes folks have to be encouraged to leave their parents. It
appears that loyalty to parents, and even to the church building
(their father helped hammer some of these nails) is their "wealth."
This is about money because the man who came up to ask Jesus was
wealthy. It's also about more than money, though. It's about values.
There's a theater term (actually 2 terms meaning almost the same
thing): "pulling focus," and "upstaging." Pulling focus is a tactic
hams use to pull an audience's focus away from the action. Overdone
"bits" and whatnot. "Upstaging" is a term that places a character
upstage (behind, from the audience's perspective) another character so
that the downstage person is forced to turn away from the audience in
order to dialogue.
I'm not sure I'll be going with the Gospel this week; we're having the
firefighters and police officers to worship and lunch afterwards, and
I want to focus on the risks they take.
Then again ... risking all we have, investing it in God might make a
decent allegory.
Sally in gA
There's a book entitled "The Idolotry of the Family."
I realize I'm pulling focus, here, but it seems very similar. Money,
wealth is a good thing - in Jesus' day, seen as a blessing from God,
and probalby in reward for being faithful to the Law. What this rich
young man discovered is that he was being asked to give up his
blessing from God because he's worshiped the blessing over the God who
gave it.
Same with "family values." I wasn't very articulate earlier. I have
difficulty knowing how to be these peoples' pastor. They worship here
only once every few weeks (if that) and, while they come to a few ice
cream socials and what-not, I had difficulty ministering to them
during their father's illness and death. If they can't be very regular
participants in church, how far do I reach to create a bond? Yet, as
one said, "I would go anywhere else. This is my family's church. The
church I was brought up in." The church was a blessing to them and
they appear to wish to hold onto the blessing.
That sounds to me like the same thing the rich ruler was asked to give
up. God's blessing.
I'm starting to churn over the idea of God's blessings being
temporary. Rather than "the Lord give\th and the Lord taketh away,"
it's "the Lord giveth and requires that you giveth it away" or somehow
leave it to follow Jesus.
Sally in GA
The difference between temporary blessings and eternal blessings is a
good angle to pursue. It seems to me that Jesus was trying to tell the
rich man that temporary material blessings in this life do NOT
translate well into eternal spiritual blessings. In fact, just the
opposite is usaually the case! Best to get rid of all the temporary
blessings that we find ourselves tied down to if we are REALLY seeking
eternal blessings from God. If we don't we begin to confuse the two in
kind. We start to view eternal blessings as 'earnable', just like we
view our material blessings. And this always seems to lead to a false
sense of self sufficiency.
Lake-O Pilgrim
If Jesus had counted his heavenly wealth to be his greatest love, we
would be a sorry world, indeed. Even as the Prince of Heaven, he
became lower than the angels, humbled himself, lived on the
hospitality of those willing to share, and walked in complete trust
and faithfulness to God. Because he said Yes, we have been given life.
His request that we offer the bounty of our very comfy lifestyles so
the poor can have life (literally) is hardly surprising.
Our interest in being disciples is demonstrated by our willingness to
love others as we love ourselves. The rich man was not interested in
being a disciple if it was going to cause him to love to the point of
sacrifice, to suffer or even to change his heart. His story could be
our story on any given day.
Still chewing on this text. KHC
It's a little different emphasis than the blessings discussion we're
having here, but I keep coming back to verse 21: "Jesus, looking at
him, loved him..." It seems to me that's the key to the entire
encounter -- Jesus looked at him, really *looked* at him, actually
*saw* who he *really* was, and instead of seeing selfishness or
whatnot Jesus saw someone who was so close (yet also quite far) from
giving over his entire life to God (he was enthusiastic enough to
*run* up to Jesus after all!) if only he'd get rid of the barrier
between him and God by giving away his idol. Without looking at him,
though, the temptation might have been to condemn him or judge him or
lecture him. It's the perfectness of Christ that stops him from
speaking, looks at the rich young ruler, and *love* him, and *then* he
begins speaking in love. Just my Monday thoughts as I'm working
through a very fun passage. :>
*BKW in IL
Date: 10/6/2003
Time: 3:24:11 PM
Comment
The very Lutheran way to see this story is that the man asks What must
I DO to inherit eternal life. Jesus trumps up the obligation until the
people realize that getting into heaven is impossible for us to do but
for God it is possible. Then he turns it around on Peter too. So no
one can boast in essence.
Money then does not stand out, but it contrasts the idea that we can
earn our own way into heaven.
I have a completely other way to read it, but I'm just talking about
the Lutheran way. jw in tx
Date: 10/6/2003
Time: 5:01:25 PM
Comment
I have been reading Dorothee Solle and she made a comment that I
believe is relevant here, "If my hands are fully occupied holding on
to something, I can neither give or receive." This may be what the
Word is trying to help us understand. We need let go of those things
we think are important so that we can really help those in need. Just
some thoughts to reflect on....
DEK in Iowa
The Dorothee Solle quote is "right on." That's what the text is about!
Thank you. If I come up with any stories to flesh it out, I'll let you
know. oberta
Sally, whenever I hear politicans and clergy talk about "family
values" I want to ask, "whose family" and what values? We cannot
assume that all families are functional and that all values are good
ones. Beaver Cleaver Land doesn't exist. Roberta
The discussion of the rich man's perception of his wealth as a
blessing, and therefore his shock at being asked to surrender it, has
reminded me of a somewhat touchy political subject. We get a wonderful
cable program called "Passages" in which two Jewish scholars discuss
texts from the Hebrew Scriptures. They were discussing God's gift of
The Land to the people of Israel, clearly a blessing. The point was
raised: is it possible to have an idolatry of The Land, even though
it's a blessing? What if God asked us to give it up? How could God
possibly ask us to give it up, having blessed us with it? Obviously
there was no easy answer - the questions continue to hang in the air.
I don't raise this subject lightly, because people are passionate
about it, with good reason. Another submission comes from that astute
theologian, Bruce Springsteen. In one of his songs (can't remember
which) there's a line, "In the end, what you don't surrender/Well, the
world just strips away." How can you hear that and not think of Christ
on the cross? One last thought about possessions: Carol Shields, a
Canadian author, wrote this beautiful moment (somewhere) in which a
character is visiting her mother in a nursing home. Looking into her
mother's bedside table for something, she is struck by the fact that
all her mother's worldly possessions have come to this: what can be
held in a bedside table drawer in a nursing home. Houses, cars,
furniture, barbecues, china: all gone. All you wind up with is some
kleenex, a comb, a few mints. Makes you ponder what you're hanging on
to, and why. LF
Are we looking for eternal life (a gift from God) or a relationship
with God? Were we created so God could have a relationship with us or
so we could recieve all of God's blessing.
Do we want God or his blessings? JWS
O.k. Folks, I am going to play a bit of devil's advocate here. I am
wondering if our beliefs that the real meaning is our attachment to
the items, and not the possession of items, is our trying to
rationalize for ourselves that we can keep all our "Stuff" What if he
really is saying that we need to sell our stuff? Which one of us isn't
held back from total dependence on God because of our stuff? All we
have to do is spend some length of time in a third world country to
realize how much stuff we say we need, is really wants. I know I am
way too dependent on my stuff. I am the first to admit I love my
creature comforts, my toys, that I say I can't get along without them.
I know I can. The crux is I don't want to! There is a reason that the
church in North America is dying and the churches in third world
countries and places where it costs something to believe and follow
Jesus is thriving. We are so dependent on our stuff, and not just
that, but the power that we get from living in certain areas, driving
certain cars, having our cell phones, etc. having all the items that
tells everyone we are successful. So what if Jesus really wants us to
chuck that stuff? Are we willing to do that? OUCH!
Susan in Wa.
Hey all,
Family surgery today -- it's after 2 am and I thought I'd catch up
with the conversation.
HC writes: "Once again, your resident "Spirit of the Texter" thinks
this may have nothing really to do with money in a literal sense."
Eric in OH, Creature Wayne and many of the rest of you have agreed ...
and so do I. That is perhaps for me what is so sad about this young
man. He had it all, but either he didn't get it or he did and knew he
could not/would not give it up ... at least not then, not that we know
of. It is "letting go and letting God" -- it is what Mark has been
telling us in ten different chapters worth of ways ... there can be
nothing else that holds our attention or affection or devotion other
than God and God's work in this world. Some of us may be lucky enough
not to have to give up all creature comforts to accomplish that, but
then again, we may yet be asked to.
On one hand, if someone else were to look at my life they would think
I'd done pretty well at dropping things and following. But, I fear if
Jesus asked that question of me, my answer would disappoint. Both of
us.
Maybe it's too late to write ... MM in PA
DEK --
The Dorothea Solle quotation ("If my hands are fully occupied holding
on to something, I can neither give or receive") reminds me of another
from Martin Luther:
"God divided the hand into fingers so that money would slip through."
Last evening, as I was meeting with our annual fund campaign committee
to prepare the materials we are handing out on Sunday to kick-off the
annual stewardship drive, it occurred to me that I have to preach a
"stewardship sermon" this Sunday. The occurrence of this lesson is
purely serendipitous, but certainly timely!
LF -- thank you for the Carol Shields image -- that is precisely my
experience with my elderly batchelor uncle, whose affairs I manage. He
lives in an assisted-care facility and most of his possessions (such
as they are) are in with me in storage. What is "important" in his lie
now are just a few minor things that are held in one drawer and a
medicine cabinet! LF, can you recall the name of the book in which
Shields wrote of this in her mother's life?
Blessings, Eric in OH
I'll confess (again) my "going onto perfection" Wesleyan bent, and
against that understanding this passage reads like an examination of
one's faith journey. There is a progression from avoiding evil, to
natural good (honor father and mother), to perfect good (which is a
dynamic goal in love, not a static reality of "done that/got it
made"). Borrowing from pop culture, my sermon title will be "A Gospel
Eye for the Sinful Guy."
OLAS
"Good Teacher, what must I do to inherit eternal life?"
I think the passage hinges on 'What must I do..." with emphisis on the
"I". It will be hard, says Jesus, for the rich to go to heaven. "Who
can be saved?" the disciples ask. Peter, still hanging on to his good
works, tries to get into heaven by saying, "Look what we have done...
isn't that enough?" Isn't everyone asking Jesus the same question?
The 'punchline' from Jesus is that we 'get to heaven' by the grace of
God. Jesus responds to each of these questions and statements with
love- he loved the young man, he affirms his disciples and he offers
comfort to those in need (the last will be first). While all others
are clamoring about work, money and sacrifice, Jesus is offering love.
As another posting pointed out earlier, the young man asks what he can
do to 'inherit' eternal life. One does nothing for an inheritance, it
is freely given by the one writing the will.
TB in MN
There are so many wonderful things being said here, but I wonder if
there isn't something being overlooked.
This man came asking, "what must I do to inherit eternal life?" LN is
right on this point - the question, as it is worded, is absurd because
one does not "do" to "inherit." TB in MN is also on target here - this
is a terribly self-centered way of thinking — What must "I" do?
A man once approached a preacher with this exact question. "What must
I do to inherit eternal life?" The preacher said, "It's too late." The
man said, "You mean there's no hope?" The preacher replied, "Not at
all. It's just too late to do anything. Everything has already been
done by Christ at the cross." Now, granted, this event took place
before the cross, but there is more.
Jesus laid out the commandments. The rich man replied, "Teacher, I
have kept all these since my youth." Once again, the "I" is central.
Max Lucado says, "How Jesus kept from laughing or weeping at what this
man said, it's impossible to say." Who did this man think he was
kidding? How many of US have kept all these since our youth? I can't
speak for the rest of you, but I can say I sure haven't.
Jesus shows us how impossible it is to obtain eternal life, and then
He freely gives it. Riches can keep us from seeing that the love of
God cannot be merited. Nothing I do can make God love me more, and
nothing I do can make God love me less. This is grace.
I don't know if anyone wants to make this kind of leap, but shortly
after this event in Luke's gospel, Jesus meets up with Zacchaeus. Why
doesn't Jesus tell Zacchaeus that he also must sell all he has and
give to the poor? We know Zacchaeus was rich.
The reason - Zacchaeus gave half of all he had to the poor, NOT to
"inherit eternal life," but because he already had it as a freely
given gift of the grace of God.
JG in WI
Hello all. I am not a frequent poster, but a frequent reader. Thanks
for all the inspiration you share.
A couple of observations I am toying with sharing in my sermon for
Sunday: Isn't it interesting that Jesus says so little about sexuality
(nothing about homosexuality) in the gospels, but says so much about
our relationships with wealth and posessions, and yet to look at the
church today, you would think it was the other way around? As I
envision this first will be last and last will be first thing, I don't
see it as linear at all, but as circular. God is in the center and all
people stand shoulder to shoulder around God - so first are last and
last are first, because all are equal.
I very much like LN's focus on the inheritance question - I'm going to
ponder that one.
For All Saints Day, I have often invited people to add names to a
"roll call of saints" of those who have died who have been significant
in their lives of faith. Then we offer thanks for those people and the
way they have helped to shape us, during the prayers of the people. As
the roll call is read, the congregation quietly sings the Taize chant
"Jesus remember me. when you come into your kingdom". It has been a
very moving liturgical moment. Grace and Peace in Christ, Martha in
Germany
Clearing out all the stuff I don't truly need was one of the most
freeing experiences of my life. Yard-saled several hundred dollars
worth of furniture, electronics, kitchen stuff, doodads, you name it.
Kept only the essentials, which is enough. Gave proceeds to the
women's group for their missions. Felt like a million dollars. That
stuff was drowning me. Taking care of it took too much of my time.
Sitting in front of it took too much of my time. Now I have more time
for more ennobling activities and can concentrate on what truly
matters. It has really made a difference. I can see Jesus' point quite
clearly.
No Name Here
How do you suppose this rich man defined "eternal life"? Was he
looking for something spiritual, or was he looking for having the good
life continued forever?
Good reading, both here and on the OT/Psalm threads. A lay leader in
my church is doing a healing service this Sunday (annointing with oil)
... and I am doing a briefer-than-normal meditation on healing to
complement her ministry. Job and Psalm 22 obviously lead a person in
certain directions, but I am reluctant to focus only on them. My
thoughts on the rich young man are varied ... and tying it to healing
has not been an obvious leap for me.
Here's my concern, and I'd appreciate any feedback. I don't want to
imply that our dependence on *stuff* is what stands in the way of
physical healing ... because I really don't want to imply that, say,
anyone's cancer is their own fault, know what I mean?
Maybe I should just stick with the OT ... but still I'd welcome your
thoughts.
~Squeeze
Seriously ill people would give away everything they have for a cure
or even for more time. They don't worry about their things, they are
afraid. That is their impediment to receiving the peace that Jesus
offers. To help them relieve fear would be a huge gift, I would think.
For some, peace will only come when they hear good news from their
doctors. For others, it can come from just being in close proximity to
Jesus through prayer and personal faith. In the service, you will be
helping those who choose to receive the peace that passes all
understanding.
Anonymous #1 (There is another Anonymous on one of the other sites
now)
To respond to OLAS above, I like the idea of seeing this encounter in
terms of a journey of faith and "going on to perfection". But I'm
curious. Would you think the rich young ruler is still standing on the
porch waiting to go into the house (because he has not yet taken
Jesus' invitation to "follow me")? Is getting rid of his stuff a
prerequesite to receiving and accepting the sanctifying grace?
*BKW in IL
Like someone who is afraid to let loose of life, the rich man was
afraid to let loose of his riches. Wasn't yet ready to venture forth
into a new place. Nobody had told him it was OK to turn it loose and
just go.
Anonymous #1 again
We've been saying that the man's hindrance is that he thought he had
to DO something to inherit eternal life. Well, aren't the first words
out of Jesus' mouth about obeying the Law? And then, his next words
are "Sell your possessions and give the money to the poor and then
follow me". Those all sound like things this man was going to have to
DO in order to receive what Jesus offered. Do this FIRST, and THEN you
will inherit........ is the converse of this If you don't do it, you
can't inherit.......?
Hmmmm.. I thought I had a handle on this text, and now I'm not so
sure. Can somebody guide me back? Thanks.
KyHoosierCat
How about this . . . in the Kingdom, the rich will be no better than
the poor. Actually, the the first will be last and the last will be
first. So it will be very difficult for those who are rich and
clinging to their possessions to enter heaven. It will be an
emotionally jarring experience for them (us), it will be
uncomfortable. We will not be able to rely on our possessions or
status.
So not being able to give it all away won't prevent us from getting to
the Kingdom, but it will be uncomfortable when we get there. Then our
lives are preparing ourselves and others for the Kingdom that WILL
without a doubt come.
Just being wacky. jw in tx
Do you know the story about the rich man who was given an opportunity
to bring something of value to heaven with him when he died?
Well, it seems he was given this opportunity, so during the last years
of his life he gave great thought to what he would bring and finally
packed and locked a suit case which he specified was to be buried with
him. It was extremely heavy!
After his death, he made his way up the stairway to heaven lugging his
heavy suitcase. St. Peter, all the apostles, all the saints, all the
angels were waiting with bated breath to see what was in the suitcase.
What was this rich man bringing with him?
He made his way through the Pearly Gates. All the heavenly host
gathered round as he opened his suitcase to reveal the several bars of
gold that he had packed.
There was absolute silence as all the gathered saints and angels gazed
in amazement at the contents of the baggage.
Then one of the smaller angels spoke: "Pavement?!?!? You brought
pavement???!!??"
Blessings, Eric in OH
As many are sharing All Saints commemorations, I'll share ours.
Every year, we ask people who have lost a loved one since the last All
Saints Day to bring a photograph of the loved one and during a special
time in the service, we acknowledge each one.
JG in WI
Hello everybody -
I'm a daily reader but a very infrequent poster, and I appreciate this
conversation that crosses so many of the lines that divide us - my
sermons and my life are richer because of all of you!
When I think of the phrase "eternal life" the first thing that always
pops into my head is John 3:16. This fall I'm working with a group of
Cub Scouts on their "God and Country" merit badges. On Sunday one of
their tasks was to memorize John 3:16 and then say it aloud to the
group, but substituting their own name for "the world" and "whoever."
It was difficult to get them to do it, but once they got over the
awkwardness (they are eight and ten year olds after all - and it felt
awkward for me too!) you could tell they thought about that verse in a
very different way.
So in all of this discussion about eternal life and possessions and
doing/being, I keep coming back to this phrase - that it's all about
what God is doing in Christ, not about what we're doing. But my
sermons this fall are connected by the thread of "living out our
faith/walking our talk" and I'm really wrestling with how that thread
fits here - there's such a clear message of "doing." I also wonder
about the young man of our Mark text, and what his response would have
been if he had done the same thing that my Cub Scouts did - would he
still have walked away grieving? How could you walk away from THAT???
Any ideas, anybody??
Thanks!
Piper in AK
Piper in AK and I seem to be having the same troubles with this text.
Jesus seems to be listing the things you have to DO to find eternal
life. Follow the Law. Sell, give. Our post-Passion Christianity says
an emphatic NO to that - our salvation is by faith alone, with good
works as a thankful RESPONSE to what Jesus has done for us. If this
were mine to decide, it would go in this order: first believe who
Jesus is, then follow, then do your good works. So, now I'm stuck. I
may just have to go back to my original thoughts that one requirement
for discipleship is a willingness to love others as much as we love
ourselves. In order to do that we must empty ourselves of all that
would be a hindrance to giving and receiving love.
This is a tough one, folks. At least it is for me. Thanks for
listening.
KHC
Way to go LN thanks for contributing. If I put rocks in our font folk
in the 'gation would think I had rocks in my head! But I like the
idea. and probably do have a rock or two up there.
Keep posting fresh meat is good. Ole JC is really joking this week
camel through the eye of a needle. My sources tell me this is a great
world view shift for early xians (Mark's audience) and also Jesus's
contemporaries. The rich were already blessed and assumed to be headed
to glory. That is why the disciples were befuddled! WHO then CAN be
saved. Like Barny Fife, What are we going to do Andy?
Basics 101, for us impossibe, with God all things are possible.
PBOB in SC
KHC says: "...our salvation is by faith alone, with good works as a
thankful RESPONSE to what Jesus has done for us. If this were mine to
decide, it would go in this order: first believe who Jesus is, then
follow, then do your good works. So, now I'm stuck."
Here's how I see it, Kat... back to my point of what Jesus might have
said if the RYM had said "OK". It seems to me that what Jesus is
looking for is precisely what you are expecting, i.e., a response! For
Jesus, following the Law ought to produce the same kinds of good works
that faith in him will eventually be expected to produce in
Christians. At the heart of the Law is the same thing that is at the
heart of the Christian Gospel -- loving God and loving neighbor as
self. The RYM had followed the Law but had not gotten to its heart;
this is what Jesus was saying to him when he said, "you have one thing
left" ... the one thing, symbolized by divorcing himself from his
possessions, was the going beyond the letter of the law to a real
living in the spirit of the law, which would produce the same kind of
behaviors as a living faith in Christ should produce.
How's that?
Blessings, Eric in OH
Hey Eric, maybe the rich guy did show up again and give jesus
everything. Maybe that is how this twelve man show (and groupies)
existed for so many years in the field with no visable means of
support?
I find it funny how we all act as if this guy wouldn't what we have
all done? Have we? I like to think their are richer folk than me that
God must be referring to, however I somehow see this as condeming on
me cause I have so much more than I need and am not always biblical in
my sharing model.
Not afraid to say PBOB in SC
Eric, thanks. That's sort of the direction I'm heading in - and I
appreciate the support. Very much.
KHC
The rich man says to Jesus, "How can I get there from here? How can I
get beyond obedience to the commandments (which is a head thing) to a
full-blown, faithful relationship with God (which is a heart thing)?"
Jesus discovers, as he moves past the man's outward appearance to his
inner reality, that the man loves his stuff. The rich man has put a
lot more time and effort into aquiring stuff than he has put into
understanding, loving and serving God. "I want to GIVE you the
kingdom," Jesus says to him, "but first you have to let go of your
stuff because that's your real treasure." Ouch!
Barbra Brown Taylor talks about the opposite of rich isn't poor, but
free. I read somewhere else today that this isn't a story about Jesus
wanting to take away our stuff, but wanting to give us God's stuff.
The author of Hebrews confesses with joy that "God's word is alive and
at work in the world." Jesus, God's word, "cuts all the way
through...to our thoughts and our heart." Not because he wants to take
something away from us, but because he wants to give us a full-blown
relationship with God. Can't we see this a good news, even though it
might hurt to have to be honest about the crap we have let come
between us and God, and that we are less-than perfect, and that we
aren't always so sure about the beauty and the blessings of the
relationship? Is this relationship, where we let God be our conscience
instead of the world,worth the cost? Jesus says the blessings will far
outweigh the pain, especially since God deals out justice in the
kingdom. How lucky we are that Jesus loves us enough to be honest with
us about the things that are getting in the way of our discovering the
blessings God has to offer. This is called grace. We don't deserve his
effort or his honesty...but if we ask, knock...my goodness he's always
there! revdlk in ne
ps I always snicker about the first will be last and the last will be
first. Is there a line in the kingdom? Is that the best God can do,
offer us a line? Please let it be short.
Up here in Canada, this Sunday is Thanksgiving Sunday, and I am
tempted to follow these texts rather than "Thanksgiving" texts. In
Job, in the Psalm, and again here in Mark we have a God who is a
source of disappointment to us. A god who doesn't meet what we see as
our needs, a hidden God. I will tell the story of a man in our
congregation, diagnosed with cancer, who declined treatment (for
whatever reason). His wife and a group of her prayer-warrior friends
decided to pray him back to health, but he died. Where did God get to
in this story? What did Job want from God; what did the rich young
man; what did the Psalmist, and what do we? If we don't get a message
that makes us feel good from our current preacher, will we change
churches until we find one with a good line of ego-massage? And watch
the Word slice through this self-interest! (Hebrews!) Still working on
it, but these are the main lines. Incidentally, for thanksgiving in a
time of disaster, check out Habbakuk 3:17,18 Alan in Ontario
As many of you have already commented in round about ways - eternal
life/Kingdom of God is a state of being. In others words the wealth of
the rich is somehow an inhibiting factor in our truly being as God
wants us too.
My theory is that it inhibits us, because we believe it provides
security, when the reality is that it can never buy health, love,
life/death, etc.
The spiritual life - the eternal life - is the life of relationships.
Wealth/possessions simply adds another obstacle in the difficult
pursuit of wholesome relationships.
To pass into a relationship,(ie enter the Kingdom of God) requires
vulnerability not security. Jesus is attempting to strip the rich
young man of a false security that will only inevitably in the long
term rob him of enjoying fulfilling relationships.
This doesn't mean relationships are any easier for the poor, as the
dynamics of human interraction still exist, but it is harder for the
rich because of the many distractions maintaining wealth causes.
Even computers, which we all use, can be a hindrance and an obstacle
to good interpersonal contact.
First and last in relationship or kingdom terms has to do more with
maturity, than it does with position.
Regards, KGB in Aussie
Eric in OH - Wish I could remember the source of the Carol Shields
image. I think I heard it on a radio broadcast, when she was reading
from her work. Loved the joke about bringing "pavement" to heaven! It
reminded me of a story from "Jacob the Baker: Gentle Wisdom for a
Complicated World" by Noah benShea. An elderly woman, wealthy and
greedy, comes to the wise Jacob for advice. She asks him how she can
"take it with her" when she dies. Jacob replies, "Everything of value
can be taken over to the other side." She is thrilled by this news,
and shouts, "How? How?" He responds calmly, "In your memory." Shocked
and disappointed, she says, "In memory? Memory can't carry wealth!"
Jacob says, "That is because you have already forgotten what is truly
of value."
I noticed that Jesus uses commercial language to talk to the rich man.
"You lack one thing," ie "You still need to get something. You need to
upgrade your spiritual life." This sort of language is effective
advertising: sell the need, sell the solution. But the solution Jesus
proposes is so challenging that few could "buy" it! I think I'll go
with a classic Lutheran interpretation: no works, not even the radical
sacrifices made by the twelve, earn a guarantee of eternal life. It's
a free gift. LF
Wow. This is an awesome discussion. Thank you, Holy Spirit.
I like the angle about how Jesus wants our heart. Lots of things
besides money can steal our heart.
I stumbled on an excellent non-money story in the 4th Chicken Soup for
the Soul. (ISBN1-55874-459-2) A mom gets stuck getting her gall
bladder romoved during Christmas and ends up with a sweet Downs
Syndrome woman named Ginger as a roomate. The mom gets a million
flowers and the simple-hearted Ginger gets none. The mom knows she
should offer Ginger some of them but she's already imagined where
she'll put each arrangement in her home when she gets out so she
doesn't. Just before Ginger leaves for home she puts a tiny wreath
that a candy-striper had given her on the mom's lap and says, "Merry
Christmas. You're a nice lady" and gives her a hug. The mom said at
the end, "I knew she possessed much, much more than I." It's a
touching story though probably too long. It surely shows how easily
our hearts are seduced away from love of God and neighbor. TiminOH
I am still struggling with my sermon and I think part of the problem
is that I am finding in myself a tendency to romanticize poverty.
Certainly wealth can be a HUGE barrier between us and Christ. But I am
finding this week that I need to remind myself that poverty can also
be a barrier. If my children were dying of hunger while others in the
world were bemoaning the fact that they have gone up yet another
clothing size this year-- I suspect that I would feel anger, or
despair, or frustration. I am not so sure I would be able to place
much trust in God.
Maybe that is why Jesus tells the young man to sell what he has and
give it to the poor. Not just so that the riches that separate the
young man from God are removed, but also so that the poverty that
separates others from God will be moved as well.
Just musing...WAY early in the week for me...
Beth in NC
Thanks to you all for the insight on this discussion! A few things
have been coming to my mind that I haven't seen mentioned thus far:
+ in Hebrew society wealth was a sign of God's blessing. If someone
had a lot of wealth, it must be a sign that he was finding favor in
God's sight. (Which is why Job's friends were so baffled by the loss
of his wealth -- "What did you DO, Job, that you lost out with God?")
May also explain why the disciples were so shocked by Jesus'
statement, "How hard it will be those who have wealth to enter the
Kingdom of God..." ("HARD?!! We assumed it would be EASIEST for the
rich since clearly they've already found favor and been blessed by
God.") And don't we hear prosperity-theology all over the place even
today?
+ Something I still remember from a visit to Jerusalem, mentioned by a
tour guide: The "eye of the needle" refers to an extremely narrow
doorway/passage in the city wall -- a human could slip through, but
not a camel. May have been Jesus was standing in close proximity to
one of these sections of the City wall.
+ On poverty. My congregation here in the Netherlands is extremely
diverse (thank You, Lord!), from people who make huge salaries as
CEO's of huge corporations to many refugees who come here seeking
asylum with not much more than the clothes on their back. The latter
sometimes work as cleaning people for the former, though in their
homelands they may have had positions as accountants, lawyers and
teachers. I want to be very sensitive in how I approach the idea of
poverty, realizing that it has not been seen as the ideal
romaniticized condition we Westerners have the luxury of choosing, but
an evil, imposed on their nations by leaders who are corrupt, making
evil choices which have not led their people closer to God's Kingdom.
Just a few thoughts which I will continue to ponder.. Blessings on us
all as we seek to proclaim God's riches.
L'Anni in the Hague
L'Anni in the Hague offered: "Something I still remember from a visit
to Jerusalem, mentioned by a tour guide: The "eye of the needle"
refers to an extremely narrow doorway/passage in the city wall -- a
human could slip through, but not a camel. May have been Jesus was
standing in close proximity to one of these sections of the City
wall."
This is something that I have heard before. However, the New
Interpreter's Bible disagrees on this. I don't have the volume handy
at this time, but when I get to the office, I'll pull it off the shelf
and provide you with the relevant commentary.
Blessings, Eric in OH
Did you notice that in 10:30 Jesus slips in persecutions with all the
other rewards the faithful will receive. This is the first time that I
ever noticed that. He's sneaky isn't he?
Creature Wayne
Abingdon Bible Commentary also mentions the narrow gate, but casts
doubts on that interpretation, too.
This is my first contribution to this site. I have been gleaning from
others for months.
In an earlier contribution, someone mentioned idea of the "13th
Disciple" for this text. That brought to mind a tradition at Texas A &
M University called the "12th Man". You can read about it at
aggietraditions.tamu.edu/12thman.shtml
It is a very appropriate sermon illustration for this passage and the
13th Disciple idea. This Sunday is Bible presentation for our 3rd
graders and I am using these thoughts to challenge them -- and us all
-- to be prepared by knowing/learning/loving God's word.
Patti in TX
This will be a big day in our congregation - I pray so, anyhow. The
firefighters and police officers are coming to worship and to a lunch
afterward.
I'm thinking of the man going away grieving ... he apparently believed
what Jesus said otherwise he would have gone off saying something
like, "What a crackpot!"
Because of the nature of the day, I'm thinking about those who lose
their posessions tragically and those who survive things like fires
and tornadoes intact. More specifically, I'm thinking about the weird
things our theology does in those times, like "God really showed us
his blessings. He spared us." or "We just prayed and God spared us."
What does that say about those who weren't "spared?"
Anyways, firefighters and police officers know all too well about
people losing BIG things -- like all their posessions, or the loss of
function, and even the loss of sanity. The promise Jesus is offering,
from the vantage point of this Gospel text, is that God's earthly
blessings are temporary - yet God's heavenly blessings are infinite.
Having worked in Social services in the emergency room, I've known
people who are in that "just-after-the-tragedy" shock. While I was
emergency only, I do know that those who were going to be able to come
to grips were those whose treasures were laid up in heaven. That they,
to quote a story posted several posts ago, knew what was truly
valuable.
Now, to throw a wrench in the works ... have you read the latest from
Wilkerson? While I don't use the sermon as a "platform," I do use it
to clarify misconceptions. His latest is called "A life that God
rewards." And, actually, its content isn't near that legalistic; but
the attraction to the common folks is that they can ask "What can I DO
to inherit the kingdom?" and he appears to give an answer.
mulling it over ... the ppr committee is meeting for my yearly
evaluation as we speak and I can't help but be nervous, so I hope I
made some sense through that distraction.
Took a day off yesterday. It was wonderful.
Sally in gA
I have, as most of you have,preached on this text more times than I
can remember (I think this may be either my eighth or ninth time
through the lectionary)and I have usually preached on our priorities
(my best sermon title, if not sermon was "Who's on first" after the
wonderful old comedy routine by Abbot and Costello)
But then I get down to 26-27. The disciples asked-"then who can be
saved" and Jesus speaks "for mortals it is impossible, but not for
God;for God, all things are possible.
Maybe the text has more to do with what God in Jesus Christ has done
for us than what we think we need to do to get in good with God. Maybe
where we see judgment, God sees grace.
revgilmer in texarkana
OFF SUBJECT: Help needed. I have been very sensibly approached by a
mental ill man who belives that while there are chemical imbalances in
the brain that are helped by drugs, he believes that their are also
demons that reside there too. He wants us to start a group that allows
people to talk about Jesus and the help he can be in resisting the
demons. I am going slowly here and yes warning bells are sounding, but
its seems that their maybe a plea for a type of ministry that may
include a Bible study, fellowship and perhaps a short service during
the week. Any links or helps in this would be greatly appreciated.
Nancy-Wi revncarmichael@yahoo.com
Piper in AK- I ask the entire congregation do put their own name in
one sunday and then turned around and ask them to turn in the pew and
say the name of the person next to them. It seemed to move them. I
also rarely use 3:16 w/0 3:17 just a thought. Nancy-Wi
Like Eric, I too, am kicking off a stewardship campaign on Sunday. BUT
disagree that this passage is timely. What a HORRIBLE stewardship
text! What if I preached an impassioned sermon and even half the
congregation took Jesus' words personally and literally? What if they
gave all they had to the poor? They'd have nothing left to give to the
church! Our budget would be sunk!!
So I end up seeing this passage has more pressure to put on Church
leadership than the parishoner. How do we come up with a budget that
people see benefits the poor?
I DO AGREE with you Eric, that the law is important to understanding
the text and that (unlike the Abingdon commentary suggests) the man
was dilusional in thinking he had kept the whole law. Jesus put his
finger on the one thing that reveals his dilusion. That his heart
wasn't in it. According to the prophets' understanding of "Thou shalt
not steal," you couldn't have very wealthy and very poor living side
by side. My guess is that if we could "follow the money" we'd find
many holes in this guy's keeping of the law from his youth.
But bringing the interpretation back to us, what does it mean for us
if this passage is INDEED about money? Regardless of our wealth, don't
we do the same thing in divorcing money from our spiritual life?
Separate category from our "law keeping." One thing thou lackest. We,
too, leave out our money in our discussions of discipleship. Don't
dare to talk about that in church. Money is too personal.
So this is how the text becomes a stewardship text after all.
pHil
Ooooh, I just had a thought here. (Almost a miracle for me at this
time of the morning, with only one cup of coffee down!) What if the
question the Rich Young Ruler was asking was the wrong question? "What
do I DO to inherit eternal life?" I told my congregation a couple of
weeks ago, that if I were to put a title on this whole series of
Discipleship sermons in Mark over the last 6 weeks, it would be, "IT'S
NOT ABOUT YOU!" So, maybe Jesus is telling him, Receiving the Kingdom
of God isn's another achievement that we have earned. It isn't one
more thing that we can add to our resume or Dossier. So, it isn't
about the actual giving up everything to come to the Kingdom, it is
about having to give up all the attitudes of personal gain, personal
achievement, in order to be totally dependent on Jesus. Isn't the
scariest part of giving up our possessions, really the power we have
because of them? It is more a culture than the things in themselves.
There is a ministry in D.C. Called "The Ministry of Money." It sounds
strange, but it is a whole ministry dedicated to helping us give up
the culture that says we need all this stuff. It isn't the stuff. It
is what it represents in heart attitude. It is the sense of security
that we have in things outside of ourselves. It is what we do, and not
who we are. The being/doing debate. I grew up in an upper middle class
to wealthy culture. There is a high sense of personal achievement, a
whole community of Type A personalities. It's what drives the engineer
fathers working for NASA to do their 2nd grader's Conestoga Wagon
project to engineering perfection, as he does in building rockets. It
has nothing to do with the learning process, but everything to do with
the final project being perfect for all to see and that gives little
Johnny the A, even though he learned nothing in the process. But then,
Jesus is saying give up that attitude, sell the achievement mentality,
become dependent and vulnerable. Even his disciples are in shock, but
he then gives the good news: All things are possible with God.
I know a man who also lived in the same community. He is an extremely
wealthy man, owning his own construction Company that is highly
successful. But he has gone through the eye of the needle. He builds
home for women coming out of domestic violence shelters, and other
homes for the other poor or marginalized. He doesn't own his wealth.
He gives it away, and that is his greatest joy.
Susan in Wa.
Hi All -
I think one thing that may help clear up where Jesus is going with the
young ruler is the placement of this story in the narrative. Right
before the Rich man comes up to Jesus, JC has just finished chastising
the 12 for trying to keep little children from him. "[F]or it is to
such as these that the kingdom of God belongs. Truly I tell you,
whoever does not receive the kingdom of God as a little child will
never enter it."
What does a child have to offer - to DO? Nothing. Jesus is not talking
about being cute and cuddly and innocent. I think he is talking about
being totally dependent. That is how a child receives the kingdom.
Jesus is telling the rich man (and the disciples) that entering the
kingdom of God requires total dependence on God. Our culture in
America preaches - and we praise - "independence." God, on the other
hand, wants us to be "in-dependence" on God. The rich man was in
dependence on his folowing the law and on his money - on himself.
There was little room for God in his or the disciple's theology; at
least there was little room for grace. When people come to the Lord
empty handed - as a child - Jesus will take them up in his arms, lay
his hands on them, and bless them (10:16). I find it interesting that
our money says "In God we trust;" yet so often, the God we trust IS
the money!
I also agree with the posters who indicate the self-centered nature of
the rich man's approach. "What must I do to insure I have eternal life
for ME?" The first thing Jesus is telling this man is that its not all
about you loving and watching out for yourself; it's about you loving
and watching out for the needs of others, "the poor." If you get that
straight, you're already following me, says Jesus.
Still pondering where to go,
RevKinOK
In his little commentary "Saint Mark", D.E. Nineham has helped put my
thoughts back into focus. "To become a disciple of Jesus - to take God
seriously as the only Lord and Savior - involves complete inner
detachment from worldly things, a willingness at any moment to
sacrifice one's wealth, or anything else that may be required. ....
The kingdom is a gift that cannot be earned, while here the most
strenuous effort is required. Such a juxtaposition was hardly
accidental; both truths, St. Mark believes, are vital to Christianity,
and the apparent contradiction between them is resolved in this saying
of Jesus that 'all things are possible with God'.......For (Mark) the
reference to the Commandments will have been significant as showing
that Jesus was not the opponent of the Law the Jews made him out to
be. A sincere effort to obey the declared will of God is a basic
element in Christian discipleship which no other element can ever
render superfluous." St. Mark, D.E. Nineham, pages 272-273.
Great discussion, all. While we are seeing slight variations of the
theme, it is clear God's Word will be preached!
KyHoosierCat
I have always been struck by this passge, because I fell it so
personally. In response to Brian: I remember when I was first feeling
the call to ministry, I wanted to say "No" because I owned a house,
and the house represented security. But through time and prayer and
lots of promptings by the Holy Spirit, when it came time that I did in
fact have to give up my house -- being United Methodist I was
appointed to a church with a parsonage -- I could do so. So, I think
it's possible that the rich man did think this through. I believe God
made it possible for me to get past my own stumbling block, and I know
God can do it all. Maybe even help this rich man out.
I also have been thinking about the 2 parts to the this 'giving up' in
this pericope. Peter brags about what he and the others have given up.
and yet there's something Peter still hasn't yielded. -- his pride of
discipleship. I call it the "I'm a better Christian than you" problem.
I think these two -- the rich man and Peter -- represent only two of
the stumbling blocks we have to face as Christians when God calls us
to do something as hard as surrendering everything!
I know I 'm getting long winded, but the discussion has set my mind
awhirling. The millionaire from Alabama (Millard ? -- I'm blanking on
his name) that worked with Clarence Jordan to establish Habitat for
Humanity took seriously Jesus' command to the rich man to give it all
up. He did just that and has been happy ever since! And what a
difference his work and witness have made in the world!
Joye in Baltimore
I, as a commissioned lay minister, have been filling the vacancy at my
church since July. Our new pastor's first service was last Sunday, and
then he went off to a pastoral conference, so here I am again.
Over the prior several weeks, I've been speaking on several subjects
dealing with greatness in the Kingdom. Week before last (my last as
interim), I spoke on being great as it related to Mark 9:33-50 (yes, I
extended the Gospel reading).
I think on this Sunday, I will continue the "greatness" theme with the
idea that greatness comes from being dependent on God, not on our
things. I like RevKinOK's idea of "Independence vs. In-dependence" as
a sermon title. RevK, may I plagiarize your title? DK in AK
KHCat et al,
It must be nice to have folks with large bank accounts who DON'T use
them to express their displeasure with what the church is doing. Our
small parish with a $150,000 annual budget is taking a $23,000 hit
this year from those withholding funds over General Convention's
giving consent to Bishop Robinson's election. Regardless of the impact
their actions are having on the local parish they say they care for
they are following the AAC's guidelines to a T. "Step on their
air-hose" is the phrase being used. It's all about who has the power
for these folks, though they frame their protest based on principles.
I have trouble seeing what this has to do with kindgom behavior:
loving God and neighbor no less than self. They just don't seem to get
it.
Susan in GA
In a former church we used a non-denominational hymnal. One of the
songs they knew was "Earthly Pleasures Vainly Call Me". The words to
the first 2 verses are: 1) Earthly pleasures vainly call me, I would
be like Jesus; Nothing worldly shall enthrall me, I would be like
Jesus 2) He has broken every fetter, I would be like Jesus; That my
soul may serve him better, I would be like Jesus.
Anonymous #1
To *BKW in IL (and everyone else listening in!)
Giving away his stuff is not a prerequisite for receiving sanctifying
grace -- grace is always a gift. Otherwise, we would seem to be
obligating God to respond to us as master. Giving away his stuff can
be, however, an exercise that helps to create a Christ-like place in
his life that God may then choose to fill with the Holy Spirit. John
Wesley was clear (well, as clear as 18th century theologians got) that
spiritual disciplines/habits of holiness were necessary for being
PREPARED TO RECEIVE the gifts, but were not the MEANS FOR ACQUIRING
the gifts. (Sorry about the caps -- I am not intending to "shout",
just to emphasize.) That is the whole point of spiritual formation --
being "formed" in order to be used by God as a vessel through which
the grace of Christ may be poured out into the world.
As for being on the porch, my hunch is that he is like a lot of others
in our churches -- hoping the porch will be enclosed and made part of
the house, so he doesn't have to move or do anything!
OLAS
PS -- though I am not going this way with this passage, some might
appreciate this: there is a book of cartoons called "YHWH is not a
Radio Station in Minneapolis, and other things you ought to know."
Concerning the camel through the eye of the needle, the cartoon ends
with something along the lines of "ever since Jesus said this,
preachers, rich folks, and especially rich preachers have tried to
explain this away."
DEK in Iowa, thanks for the Dorothy Solle quotation. I am using this
week's text to talk about stewardship and that particular quotation
may fit in very well.
Borrowing from ideas in a sermon by John C. Holbert I am using Mark
10:17-31 to talk about the dependence of children on those who care
for them and our own dependence upon God for all good gifts. We may
not be able to force a camel through the eye of a needle (or a loaded
camel through the gate called the Needle's Eye, if you prefer) but we
can depend upon God to do anything God promises us. We can't make
those promises come about ourselves. We are dependent upon God to make
them happen. Depending upon God is one component of stewardship.
Respondng to that dependence is another component.
Still working it out
Robbie in KS
Sally in Ga.
It is an interesting question that you have regarding the family in
your church who have been blessed by that church, and wouldn't go
anywhere else, but are paying more attention to the blessing than the
one who gave it. I like your thoughts about the "Lord gives and the
Lord makes you give it away." It reminds me of the passage, "To Whom
the Lord gives much, Much will be expected." Wow, if you think of that
in terms of Israel and Palestine, with the blessing of the land. Are
they worshipping the blessing, but not responding to the living word?
What would they do if God asked them to give it away? Would they walk
away sad? And the question that Job asks, "What, shall we receive good
from the hand of God, and not receive evil?" If we believe that God is
truly sovereign, does he not have the right to ask us/them to give it
all up?
Susan in Wa.
In reading this over again, the list of commandments that Jesus lists
is not exhaustive of all the commandments. It is the list that most of
us could say we follow. They are the "big ticket" commandments:
murder, adultery, fraud, honoring mom and dad." But the first
commandment, that he doesn't mention about loving God with our heart,
mind, soul, and strength, in other words, with nothing held back, is
the umbrella commandment for all of the rest. His inability to say yes
to that, showed that he had more of an interest in being respectable,
than a disciple. Jesus isn't interested in just being respectable. He
wants all of us.
Susan in Wa.
Just as another view. Jesus called a young man in his early teens to
not only follow him but to carry his Gospel. For a few years, in the
exuberance of youth, the young man moved in that direction. Over time,
the excitement wore off and the world pressed in. The young man, rich
with a life that he could turn over to Christ to use, turned around
and walked sadly away. It took him over 20 years of that life to
realize what he had given up. When he understood, then the
not-so-young wanted to "do" something to make it right but nothing he
could "do" was enough. Then God stepped in and reminded him that all
that need to do had already been done.
Christ called me first and it still stood. All I had ever had to do
was follow. Now my regret is in the time I wasted but Christ reminds
me that my focus isn't on yesterday but today. It may be my story but
I've heard it time and again from many "second career" and local
pastors. It isn't it amazing what kind of riches that some of us find
hard to give away. Mike in Soddy Daisy, TN
