Scripture Text (NRSV)
Luke 9:28-36, (37-43)
9:28 Now about eight days after these sayings Jesus took with him
Peter and John and James, and went up on the mountain to pray.
9:29 And while he was praying, the appearance of his face changed,
and his clothes became dazzling white.
9:30 Suddenly they saw two men, Moses and Elijah, talking to him.
9:31 They appeared in glory and were speaking of his departure,
which he was about to accomplish at Jerusalem.
9:32 Now Peter and his companions were weighed down with sleep; but
since they had stayed awake, they saw his glory and the two men who
stood with him.
9:33 Just as they were leaving him, Peter said to Jesus, "Master,
it is good for us to be here; let us make three dwellings, one for
you, one for Moses, and one for Elijah" --not knowing what he said.
9:34 While he was saying this, a cloud came and overshadowed them;
and they were terrified as they entered the cloud.
9:35 Then from the cloud came a voice that said, "This is my Son,
my Chosen; listen to him!"
9:36 When the voice had spoken, Jesus was found alone. And they
kept silent and in those days told no one any of the things they had
seen.
9:37 On the next day, when they had come down from the mountain, a
great crowd met him.
9:38 Just then a man from the crowd shouted, "Teacher, I beg you to
look at my son; he is my only child.
9:39 Suddenly a spirit seizes him, and all at once he shrieks. It
convulses him until he foams at the mouth; it mauls him and will
scarcely leave him.
9:40 I begged your disciples to cast it out, but they could not."
9:41 Jesus answered, "You faithless and perverse generation, how
much longer must I be with you and bear with you? Bring your son
here."
9:42 While he was coming, the demon dashed him to the ground in
convulsions. But Jesus rebuked the unclean spirit, healed the boy, and
gave him back to his father.
9:43 And all were astounded at the greatness of God.
Comments:
From the mountain top to the depths of human pain. I would rather stay
on the mountain top, but I know that God calls us to go down the
mountain, God calls us to as disciples to have faith and hear the crys
of humanity. Nancy-Wi
In one of Steven King's earliest novels, "Salem's Lot" there is a
scene where the local priest confronts a great evil (King most have
been reading Graham Greene, because the priest is pretty much just
going through the motions). When this priest cries out for help and
holds a crucifix out, he feels power going through his arm- but either
he simply cannot believe this is happening, or he can't hold on, and
he is defeated.
The disciples have seen the power that is in Christ, they have seen
him conversing with Moses (law) and Elijah (prophets) but they seem to
have no power at their disposal to heal those in the valley. Maybe
they just hadn't been paying attention!
How much attention have we been paying to the power for healing that
comes from Christ?
It's a lot more fun to play on the mountaintop (Kum by Yah, My Lord,
Kum By Yah) then to mess with sick and hurting people.
revgilmer in texarkana
revgilmer in texarkana
love to sing and I love to pray, Worship the lord most every day. I go
to the temple, and I just want to stay To hide from the hustle of the
world and it’s ways.
And i’d Love to live on a mountain top, Fellowshipping with the lord.
I’d love to stand on a mountain top, ’cause I love to feel my spirit
Soar....
But I’ve got to come down >from the mountain top To the people in the
valley below; They’ll never know That they can go To the mountain of
the lord.
Now praising the father is a good thing to do, To worship the trinity
in spirit and truth. But if we worshipped all of the time, Well, there
would be no one to lead the blind.
But i’d Love to live on a mountain top, Just fellowshipping with the
lord. And I’d love to stand on a mountain top, ’cause I love to feel
my spirit Soar.... (soar....)
But I’ve got to come down >from the mountain top To the people in the
valley below; They’ll never know That they can go To the mountain of
the lord.
I am not saying that worship is wrong, But worship is more than just
singin’ some songs, ’cause it’s all that we say and everything that we
do; It’s letting god’s spirit live through you.
Still, i’d Love to live on a mountain top Fellowshipping with the
lord. I’d love to stand on a mountain top, ’cause I love to feel my
spirit Soar.... (soar....)
Yeah, I know it's been overused, but this Amy grant song still seems
to speak to our confusion about what real holiness is all about. The
church I grew up in used a general call to communion that went
something like this "You that are in love and charity with your
neighbor and that henceforth promise to live a godly and holy life,
draw nigh with Love. I don't think living a godly and holy life means
that you spend all your time in church services, but in service to
others (If anyone knows the actual quote that I remember only dimly, I
would appreciate it if you would post it here. I think it's form an
older worship service in the Methodist church)
revgilmer in texarkana
Today's reading offers a remarkable conclusion to the Epiphany season
and turns us toward Lent. The transfiguration of Jesus is itself a
great epiphany or manifestation. In the very midst of this event is
talk of what will happen in Jerusalem, where Jesus must suffer and
die.
In Luke 9.27, Jesus tells his disciples that some of them "will not
taste death before they see the kingdom of God." Eight short days
later, Peter, John, and James witness Jesus' transfiguration on a
mountaintop. As Jesus is praying, Moses and the prophet Elijah appear
with him. This event is vibrant revelation of God's power in Christ.
Despite this amazing moment, Peter, John, and James find themselves
overwhelmed with sleep. Peter groggily suggests that they build three
booths, one each for Jesus, Moses, and Elijah. But this is not a time
to stop and commemorate; there is so much more to be revealed. As
Peter is speaking, a fog covers them and they are terrified when a
voice from the cloud announces that Jesus is the chosen one and
commands the disciples to listen to him (9.35). When the fog lifts,
Jesus is alone again with the disciples. The disciples tell no one
(9.36).
Though this scene is so out of the ordinary, we can relate to some
themes. Everyone goes through times when there are more questions than
answers. How are we called to speak God's powerful and comforting
message into foggy and confusing times? How can we "listen to him" and
invite others to do the same?
Whether God's grace shines into our lives through ordinary events or
vibrant epiphanies, God's presence offers us a glimpse of the
resurrection promise. The light that shone over the humble Judean town
of Bethlehem now shines in Jesus' transfiguration. Here we stand at
the halfway point between Jesus' baptism in the river Jordan and his
resurrection at Easter. What was spoken to Jesus at the river is now
proclaimed on the mountaintop, "This is my Son, the Chosen; listen to
him" (9.35).
One of the interesting angle which we usually overlook is "Why did
Jesus take the disciples up the mountain for?" The text said, "to
pray"! Not to demonstrate God's glory to them (that was only a
side-effect). God's glory is revealed as people observe how we pursue
knowing God with our life.
Coho, Midway City.
To revgilmer in texark:
The Methodist Hymnal, 1932, 1935, 1939:
"Ye that do truly and earnestly repent of your sins, and are in love
and charity with your neighbors, and intend to lead a new life,
following the commandments of God, and walking from henceforth in His
holy ways, draw near with faith, and devoutly kneeling make your
humble confession to Almighty God."
from PaideiaSCO in north GA mts.
I think of the Transfiguration as God's personal confirmation of
Jesus. He had been baptized, received the approval of God, and with
that, he began his ministry of preaching and teaching the Word. With
his Confirmation (Transfiguration) he began the work of being the
Savior, beginning the road to Jerusalem. This was the start of the
more committed, point-of-no-return decision to carry out the work and
all that meant. God was giving him the boost of assurance that this
was indeed the plan, and that he was exactly who he thought he was. It
was time to move on to the more difficult road.
Listen to him, God thunders from above. He is the only voice I want
you to hear. He epitomizes the perfect law and is the fulfillment of
all the prophecies. Jesus, I mark you approved and appointed and
confirmed. Now go and give yourself completely.
The invitation to confession sought be revgilmer and found by Padeia
in some relatively recent Methodist Hymnals is much, much older. Its
origin is in the First Book of Common Prayer of 1549. It has been in
every BCP (and derivatives, such as the Methodist worship texts)
since. It is the work of Thomas Cranmer, first Anglican Archbishop of
Canterbury and one of the truly great liturgists in the church's
history.
Blessings, Eric in OH
With the anonymous poster who suggested that with the Transfiguration
Jesus "began the the work of being the Savior, beginning the road to
Jerusalem," I would most strongly disagree. The world of being the
Savior began with his Incarnation and Nativity.... the Transfiguration
is not the beginning.
Blessings, Eric in OH
There seems to be a tendency to critique the actions of the disciples
regarding their response to Christ transfiguration. Yes Peter wanted
to build shrines to Jesus Moses and Elijah, but he did come down with
Jesus, and observed along with Jesus James and John, that the other
disciples (who were not on the mountaintop) were unable to do the
healing.
I remember the words of M. L. King right before he died, he gave his
testimony, and then he said “ Don’t worry about me, I’ve been to the
mountaintop, and I have seen the promise land! I know he was referring
to Moses experience at the end of his life, but it is the confidence
and encouragement that remains with me.
There is something to be said about mountaintop experiences, and
praying so long until one’s face radiates. Communication with the Lord
makes work in the valley like “seeking the kingdom first, and all
these other things will be added." Going up the mountain with Jesus is
where we learn to heal. It is a good place to go. Sometimes I think we
get so caught up in our responsibilities that we aren’t aware this is
God’s work, and not ours.
Shalom, Bammamma
Just a quick note -
At the top of the mountain were disciples who wanted to pray and do no
work.
At the bottom of the mountain were disciples who wanted to work
without praying (see Mark 9:29).
JG in WI
To anonymous poster who quotes Sundays in Season,
I really feel that you should consider giving credit and citing your
source unless you are the original listed contributor, then you are
probably under a contractual arrangement to at lest print their
permission for you to cite it again in this forum.
This is a matter of integrity.
Pr. del in Ia
Thanks, Coho! I now have my sermon title, "Transformed by Prayer". and
my direction. Toni
Sermon for Transfiguration Sunday: "Sunscreen and Shades". Grace and
Peace, Oklahoma Irishman.
Or How about "Bipolar Christianity" as a topic?
I don't have a lot of new insight into this passage which we read each
year, but I would offer that to me this was a turning point for the
disciples, not for Jesus.
I get the feeling that Luke is describing a more common experience
than we would normally ascribe to the Transfiguration.
It is that point, where we see through Jesus, to the God beyond him.
In that moment, we see beyond the human outline, into the very wonder
of God. It is that moment, when the human Jesus, becomes a conduit for
us to see the divine of his life.
Unfortunately it is often our arrogance and ignorance that stop us
from encountering this experience very often. We simply do not want
to, or are unwilling to, contemplate the magnificence of God.
Recently I got my eyes checked and discovered that I needed glasses.
When I first got them, I could not believe how my eyesight had
actually deteriorated. It had happened so gradually, that it was only
with the shock of the magnified vision, that I became aware of what
the reality really was.
This is the kind of emotive reaction that I perceive from this
encounter for the disciples. They could never be the same again.
I know that this has all been said before.
Regards as always for a great week, and a great encounter, with the
great God we serve.
KGB in Australia
The unsigned post-er commented that this text makes a remarkable
change from epiphany to Lent. A good point, I think.
From God's revelation of his Son to our realization of who we are in
his Son's presence.
Astounding.
Sally in GA
For what it's worth, I would discourage the use of the medical term,
"bipolar," to describe the highs and lows of our lives of faith. I
appreciate what you're saying, but #1 - bipolar disorder is an illness
often devastating to those who have it and to those who love the
people with it and to use the term in this way trivializes the illness
~or~ #2 - it suggests that the normally-occuring highs and lows of
faith are a disease.
Plenty of people with bipolar make it just fine in life (including
famous people like Ted Turner and some automobile bigwig), but I
consider a woman in my church whose mother was schizophrenic (not the
same illness, I know, and there's a different kind of break with
reality) and I would hate to think that I'd trivialize her mother's
illness! We sometimes use the word "cancer" to describe something
destructive that grows, but I think that this, too, might have an
unwanted effect on our listeners.
---next---
I recall the Walk to Emmaus. Everything during the walk is designed to
lift peoples' spirits - occasionally to the point of giddiness. While
mine occurred at just the right time in my life to be therapeutic,
I've seen many become almost addicted to the experience. And, since my
original Walk, I've gotten the impression that the walk has its own
"party line." I've since become somewhat disenchanted - it's gotten
too married with Promise Keepers and the conservative party line
around these parts.
Anyways, back to my point: that mountain top experience, we have to
recognize, is at least partially contrived. It's in its design for
everyone to have a good time and let go and let God take over for 72
hours. It makes me wonder how many of our ~felt~ or ~perceived~
mountain top experiences are not also humanly contrived. Though God
does work through them (that's not the point I'm trying to make), I'm
also convinced that Jesus, Peter, John and James did NOT go to a "walk
to the mountaintop" seeking a so-called mountaintop experience. They
went to the mountain to pray, and there was no other human being there
to give them a 72-hour "walk." This was straight from God.
Maybe what we're missing is the straight line from God. Maybe what we
keep seeking is the straight line from God. Maybe we need to quit
seeking it and allow it to happen straight from God.
Sally
Greetings All. I usually sit on the sidelines of this discussion, but
wanted to make comment about the disciples. I have three children, ten
years old and under. Some days they frustrate me to no end. Yesterdays
lessons are already forgotten, the same questions asked over and over
and over and over and over again. My youngest is just learning to
read. I'll point to a word, he says I don't know. I tell him, and then
point to another word and the same thing. Then I go back to the first
word, and he's already forgotten it. My blood pressure goes up, my
frustration level peaks and then I remember - he's just learning. The
disciples were as imperfect as you and I. No doubt Jesus got
frustrated when He clearly demonstrated His power, when God confirmed
Him as The Son, and the disciples just didn't get it. But He still
loved them, He still accepted their imperfections, He still welcomed
them back when they got it wrong, again and again. I don't know about
you folks, but I'm still learning each day. I'm sure there are many
days that God is frustrated with me, but God always gives me another
chance, just asks me to work a little harder at it. Whether we are on
the mountain top or down in the muck dealing with the underbelly of
the human situation, God simply asks us to do our best, to be willing
to learn, be willing to help, be willing to pick ourselves up and try
again. kn in ln
sorry - got sidetracked by my own thoughts and wasn't clear ...
that next-to-last paragraph should read "Maybe a Walk to Emmaus-like
mountain top experience ..." I'm referring to my WTE and not Jesus and
friends'
Sally
to Bammama-Thanks for pointing out that the disciples who could not
cast out the evil spirit were not the ones who were on the mountaintop
Eric- I thought that it sounded like some of the original work done by
Cranmer
And along with Saly, I would discourage the use of "Bipolar" in a
sermon title for the following reasons
this (unintentionally, I'm sure)trivializes a big problem. And in a
country where over sixty percent of the people think that all that
someone with a mental illness has to is to try harder (that's from a
recent Time magazine article)we need to be careful. This has nothing
to do with being politically correct, but with respect for persons.
Also, I know from first-hand experience how devastating even a slight
case ( like mine) of bipolar disorder can be. Between counseling and
medication, I do fine, but it's still hard for me to understand why I
have to do these things to stay somewhat even.
One of the things I do sometimes is look back at my old sermons and
sermon titles- sometimes I think it's ok, sometimes I just cringe (if
you wish to be humble or even humiliated,read some of your work from a
few years ago)
Fortunately, we are not saved by our preaching, but by the grace of
God
revgilmer in Texarkana
Just a thought
Peter, James, And John are dying to tell the other guys what they have
experienced. But before they can get a word out of their mouths, they
are confronted by human need and the failure of their brothers (who,
according to the Scriptures, had seen Jesus do some Pretty impressive
miracles)Do the three look at each other (wink, wink, If they had seen
what we have just seen) or do they look at themselves and ask-could we
have cast it out? Even now, knowing what we know, could we have cast
out this demon?
But notice the last line- It is not "They were impressed with Jesus"
but "And all were astounded at the greatness of God"
also, this may be more eisegesis than exegesis, but is there nay
chance that vs. 42 is a miniature prolepsis of Jesus death and
resurrection. I think I see something there, but I'm not sure
revgilmer in Texarkana
To Coho and JG in WI: Thank you for your excellent comments about
prayer. Giving me some great ideas!
To the person who suggested "Bipolar Christianity" as a sermon title:
I would suggest you not use this, unless you are planning to talk
about the mental illness. Bipolar disorder is one that may remain
hidden (i.e. you may not be able to tell just by looking at the
person) in members of your congregation, and using the term lightly
may be deeply hurtful to those who are dealing with it on a very
personal level.
That brings me to my own comments for this week. I am hit strongly and
a little concerned by the part of this passage which deals with the
son who "suffers from convulsions and foams at the mouth." You see, I
have epilepsy. The kind of seizures that I have do not cause me to
convulse visibly -- that are not the "Grand mal" or "tonic-clonic"
seizures that one typically thinks of with epilepsy, and it would be
difficult for a person to tell that I was having a seizure by looking
at me. However, the fact that I do have an epileptic disorder means
that I am particularly sensitive to the the treatment of epileptics
and am both fascinated and troubled by the treatments of epileptics
throughout history -- particularly by the religious community. (The
response to epileptics by the church has not often been positive.)
While there is nothing in the TEXT that says that this son who was
convulsing and foaming at the mouth was having epileptic seizures,
some scholars suggest that he was likely epileptic and other religious
people will assume that he was. For long periods in history, it was
believed that seizures were caused by demon possessions, and those
whose seizure disorders were not "cured" were sometimes condemned and
ostracized as "demon possessed." This led to numerous and gross
mistreatments of epileptics at different periods of history.
While I am not sure that this is the direction I will go in my sermon
(only a few people in my congregation know that I have epilepsy), I
wanted to bring this up and entreat all of you to deal with the issue
pastorally. Those who may, indeed, suffer from convulsive disorders
still face numerous obstacles in this life and a lot of
misunderstanding from the general public. When the assumption or
connection is made that the son in this story suffered from epileptic
seizures -- either by the preacher or by members of the congregation
-- we need to be careful about how we deal with the issue of "demon
possession." I certainly do not experience my disorder as demon
possession and do not think of other epileptics as being possessed by
demons. But there are those who may hold this view.
Just be careful and pastoral when dealing with this aspect of the
text.
Thank you and blessings.
California Preachin'
Here's an experiment
Tell your adminstrative board that you need three days- not to be
counted as vacation or study leave- to spend on a mountaintop with God
(and tell them you're going to leave your fly-fishing equipment at
home)
WOnder what their response would be?
revgilmer in texarkana
Eric,
Much of our liturgy in the UM (and predecessor Methodist Church) was
drawn from the Book of Common Prayer that John Wesley loved. In using
the liturgies of our Book of Worship I am often reminded that much of
the riches and spiritual depth of UM worship is a gift that comes to
us through the Anglican tradition from which we came.
Robbie in KS
Bammamma, you wrote: "Sometimes I think we get so caught up in our
responsibilities that we aren’t aware this is God’s work, and not
ours." That struck me because I had just--not 1/2 an hour ago!--read
the following by Oswald Chambers: "Beware of anything that competes
with loyalty to Jesus Christ. The greatest competitor of devotion to
Jesus is service for him. It is easier to serve than to be drunk to
the dregs [not "drunk" as in intoxicated, but "drunk" as in one's self
completely drunk by--taken into--God, as I understand this]. The one
aim of the call of God is the satisfaction of God, not a call to do
something for him. We are not sent to battle for God, but to be used
by God in His battlings. Are we being more devoted to service than to
Jesus Christ?"
I am struggling w/ this reading from Chambers, but it seems to fit in
w/ what you said. It seems also to fit in w/ God's reproach of Peter
for wanting to serve and do something *for* Jesus (and Moses and
Elijah; let's not forget the *divided* loyalty, which was *also* a big
part of the problem, I'd say) instead of simply being devoted to Jesus
Himself.
YET...how does Chambers' quote fit w/ the reality of going back *down*
the mountain into the nitty-gritty of serving?? Hmmmmm....
Heidi in MN
revgilmer:
I'm pretty familiar w/ Amy Grant's songs but I don't remember that
one. Seems so very fitting! Can you tell me which album it's off of?
Heidi in MN
The images of the radiant faces of those who have experienced God's
presence in a special way (Moses, Jesus) and then the need to come
back down "off the mountaintop"--be it Sinai, or the one Jesus and Co.
were on--prompts for me this, perhaps a bit off-the-wall notion of
pregnancy and what comes after. You always hear about people
suspecting a woman is pregnant because "she's glowing!" Something in
the body actually makes the skin more luminescent during pregnancy.
(This is 2nd hand knowledge for me, as I have never been "with
child.") So there is this "glowing" experience--and all the wonder of
pregnancy even if it *doesn't* show up visibly on the face--but then,
when all is said and done, and the baby is born, reality hits in a
totally different way. Some still experience having a newborn as a
mountaintop experience, but for others it is very hard, like coming
down into a valley. Either way, one is confronted w/ the day-to-day
reality of sleepless nights, diaper-changing, getting the infant to
nurse, having much less time for oneself, and all the up-and-down
emotions that often go w/ that. I wonder if the pregnancy/new infant
analogy can work at all for the experience of being "pregnant" with
faith...........
Heidi in MN
How do we *know* the disciples who couldn't manage to cure the boy
were not Peter, James, and John--i.e., the ones up on the mountain?
The episode w/ the demon-possessed boy happens the next day and I
don't see any clear indication of *which* disciples the father is
referring to. Having said that, I like the concept of some of us
focusing too much on prayer without working and some focusing too much
on working apart from prayer (that would be me, I must confess). And I
believe it was Martin Luther who said something to the effect of, "Get
down on your knees and pray as if it all depends on God. Then stand up
and work as if it all depends on you!" Seems to fit here....
Heidi in MN (OK, I think I'm done posting now!)
The illustration of Sir Edmond Hillary who was the first to climb
Mount Everest. You might be interested in reading what he did after
coming down from the mountain. (The illustration is at nearly the end
of the message, his closing illustration, but the entire message is
great.) I won't post it here, but let you go to the site.
I did send him an e-mail thanking him for his message - if you use any
of it, you might wish to do the same.
JG in WI
We all wish that our faith life was like one big Rocky Mountain High.
We all know that life is not like this. It seems that much of it can
be spent in the valleys. The question is how are we changed or
transfigured by out experience with the divine. How do we keep our
faith when we are feeling that God is distant when we are experiencing
a painful time in our life. Fred Rodgers of Mr. Rodgers neighborhood
was asked in an interview how he had always kept his faith. Fred had
witnessed trageties in his youth. He saw a car accident where people
were killed. His next door neighbors house burned down killing two of
his neighbors. Fred answered that his mother had a great deal to do
with his faith. When he witnessed a tragety his mother said look at
the helpers. The people who arrive on the scene right after something
tragic has happened. The firefighter who risk their lives to save
those trapped inside. The police and emergency medical personal. As
well as all the neighbors and friends who come to help in picking up
the pieces of ones life. These are the little Christs who help us keep
the faith. I believe that a good part of our lives is spent down in
the valley. As much as I wish that I could be high up on that mountain
top with God where nothing could ever hurt me or those I love. When I
am down in the valley I am surrounded by those who love and care for
me. Jesus went up on the mountain to pray and be re-energized to face
what was coming when he came down off the mountain. God gives us
Christs spirit so that we too can not only experience the highs of
this life but be able to trust in him when we face death. Janet in
Illinios
A question that lingers for me is how did Peter, James and John know
it was Moses and Elijah that appeared? (Did they wear nametags?)
The mystical breaks through our human limits.
Reflecting further on this text, I realize that a mountain top
experience does not bestow power upon us. The transfiguration is a
vision of the eternal and a peek into the heavenly realm.
When we come back from the majesty of the transfiguration, we are
still confronted by the realities of illness, disease and the cries of
those in need.
Sally above speaks of the Walk to Emmaus. That for many is a mountain
top experience, but on the fourth day we re-enter the world, renewed
by the living, loving spirit of God. I urge you to take from it what
God has offered to you and treasure it while you use it in your
ministry. Is this not the lesson from the pericope?
A W-G rocky Coast Me.
My friends and colligues, I am once again writing personally. My
daughter is in the hospital with fever, rash, breathing problems and
other difficulties. Chemo was done Friday and we have been here again
since last night. Her counts are not bad so neutropinia is not the
problem. We don't know wht the problem is. At this point in her
disease, each problem without explination is frightening to her..and
to me. my husband seems able to minimize the problem as Maybe I
should. It is hard as I care for her most. My sons birthday came and
went and I did not see him. I am feeling sorry for myself and
frightened and... I am ever assured of Gods mercy in spite of me. Just
asking that you pray for understanding and strength and healing.
THanks my compationate friends Tammy in Texas
Tammy,
if you are still on line, know you are in my prayers. Bless you,
sister. What a journey you are on, and I do hope you know you are not
on it alone, but we are with you too, at least in compassion and love.
May you experience his sustaining Grace and peace that passes all
understanding. Read Isaiah 43. One of my favorite passages when I am
fearful and when life is hard.
Blessings,
Susan in Wa.
Tammy - my heart and prayers are with you, your daughter, and the rest
of your family. May God give you profound comfort and a peace that
passes understanding at this time when fear is more understandable
than peace. God bless you all.
A W-G Rocky - it's the 4th day I was talking about! There's a party
line (at least around these parts) and a pressure to be involved in a
certain way. I was in a reunion group at my former appointment (I
haven't found enough Emmaus folks around here to form another one) and
I was able to be invested in it - and found it rewarding for the most
part. I was referring to the walks where I sponsored others or worked
(I gave a talk). I won't get into the details, but there is a decided
bias towards the male-dominated right. So, I use the experience for my
own growth and keep from working the walks. I still encourage others
to go on them; just because I've decided not to make it my full-time
ministry doesn't mean it isn't a good thing ... oh, I've gone on too
long and I'm sorry for that. It's just that I hate being misconstrued
and given advice according to the misconstruction. It wasn't an anti-WTE
post.
Sally
We have had a large multi-pointed star gracing the chancel area of our
sanctuary throughout the Advent- Christmas-Epiphany seasons. As part
of Sunday's service we plan to take down the star and place our "old
rugged" Lenten cross in a dominant position. Any ideas how to make
this a significant worship moment? This forum is a real treasure.
Glenn in the Thumb of Michigan, moravian@airadv.net
Dear Tammy, We all are moved by your situation and are praying for
you. To all my fellow readers, I have been prompted by several
teachers to note that the words used by Luke to refer to Jesus soon
departure are pointed reminders that He is leading His children by
faith on an Exodus from sin and bondage. He will accomplish this as
His true glory shows in the crucifixion. TA in MS
Tammy
I have a fifteen year old daughter who is the light of my life, so my
heart goes out to you and my prayers are with you. THey are also with
your husband who may be hurting much more than he is either willing or
able to say. In our society, men are still supposed to be tough and
"strong." I kow, because I tend to do this myself.
May you know that the presence of God is with you
revgilmer in texarkana
p.s. Whatis your daughter's first name? If it's alright with you, I'd
like to ask my congregation to pray for her
I am thinking about taking a larger scope of the texts this week:
Exodus, Psalm 99 and Luke are all about mountaintop experiences but in
very different ways. Moses is all about the law (black and white
thinking), the Psalmist is super spiritual having visions of God, and
Luke is about the physical Jesus, God with us.
It seems to me that Christianity is not "bi-polar" at all but
tri-polar or Trinitarian. We all have a favorite aspect of God, a
favorite way of coming to God and we all go through stages of
spiritual growth in which we delve into each aspect of God but the
reality of God is that each aspect of God is a part of the One God.
Anyone else have ideas on this? Sarah
I have so many thoughts on this passage. I always appreciate the
mountain/valley sermons but it's simply not what this text is all
about. So if not mountains and valleys, then what? What?? What???
The other day a devout Catholic friend of mine said she was reading
this passage of scripture to her sons before they went off to school.
"My goodness," she said to me, "How wonderful it was for Moses and
Elijah to get to meet Jesus." I'd never thought about that before. You
and I get to meet Jesus--the Light of God. Do we count ourselves
lucky? Turning to the 2 Corinthians text Paul's commentary on this
event includes the awesome accessibility we have to God through
Jesus...looking at Jesus face to face is the same as looking at God's
face. Nothing is hidden. Everything about God is out in the open, just
like God was out in the open with Jesus on the mountain. 2 Corinthians
concludes, "Our faces shine with the brightness of his face. Our lives
gradully becme brighter and more beautiful as God enters our lives and
we become like him." That's because God's love is powerful! God's
glory is powerful.
Do you, like me, find yourselves sort of avoiding the whole glory
thing? Such an archaic word, and yet it's in so many hymns..."All
Glory, Laud, and Honor," "To Thine Be The Glory," "Angels From the
Realms of Glory." What is glory anyway? One definition is "dignity."
That helps. In Christ we see God's dignity...and that dignity is
powerful. Probably glows in our lives when we let it get close to us,
right? I think this is beautiful...but if I talk about God's dignity,
well, for some reason I can hear snickers from the teenagers in the
pews on my left. So maybe goodness will get farther down the road. Who
knows?
Ann Lamott tells the story about the death of her father in her book,
Traveling Mercies. She mentions how she ended up at the Rothko Chapel
to deal with her pain. She writes, "The light in the Rothko Chapel was
very beautiful; it bathed me. The face of the man who was meditating
was soft and rosy, like he was giving off the chapel's light and it
was wafting over to where I sat. The thing about light is that it
really isn't yours; it's what you gather and shine back. And it gets
more power from reflectiveness; if you sit still and take it in, it
fills you cup, and then you can give it off yourself. So I sat still."
To be in God's company, to sit with God, is to be exposed to God's
bigger than life goodness and dignity. It's such a stark contrast to
the world's ugliness. I remember my first trip to a monestary to pray.
A whole weekend with lots of silence. My face did not shine, at least
not enough for anyone to mention. What I did experience was that I had
this overwhelming desire to brush my teeth. My mouth was so dirty
because God is just soooo very good. That's glory. That's what 48
hours in God's presence will do. When Jesus sat with God on that
mountain, his face gathered in God's goodness, too. As we approach
Lent, the season that begs us to sit with God's goodness or dignity
and confess that we often can't find ours...will we gather in God's
goodness and let it shine in our lives, or will we say "no, not
yet...I'm just not ready....again?"
My sermon title? My secretary sure wishes I had one. revdlk in
nebraska
Rev dlk in Nebraska,
I had an interesting experience while on my Walk to Emmaus a couple of
years ago. One of the Spiritual Directors, while giving a talk had a
very soft but distinct light just over his head. It remained there for
awhile after he spoke as well. Being somewhat superstitious about that
kind of stuff, I tried to see any other rational explanation for that
glow, whether it was light from the sanctuary or the windows, but I
could see nothing. Then, it dawned on me, that this man, who had been
the Pastor at the church I was then serving for 25 years prior to my
coming there, was one of the most humble and godly men I had ever
known. So, why wouldn't God's glory be shining on him as he spoke. He
proclaimed the Gospel in truth and in great humility. The glory wasn't
anything he saw, or was even aware of, but those who listened saw it.
Moses didn't know he had the light shining on his face either. But the
people noticed it. I think it is interesting that Moses put a veil
over his face in the presence of the people, (humility) but removed it
when he was in the presence of God. Oh that we would remove our veils
(masks) when in the presence of God, and allow him to speak to us in
such a way that others know we have been in his presence, and they are
drawn there too.
Susan in Wa.
Rev dlk in Nebraska,
I had an interesting experience while on my Walk to Emmaus a couple of
years ago. One of the Spiritual Directors, while giving a talk had a
very soft but distinct light just over his head. It remained there for
awhile after he spoke as well. Being somewhat superstitious about that
kind of stuff, I tried to see any other rational explanation for that
glow, whether it was light from the sanctuary or the windows, but I
could see nothing. Then, it dawned on me, that this man, who had been
the Pastor at the church I was then serving for 25 years prior to my
coming there, was one of the most humble and godly men I had ever
known. So, why wouldn't God's glory be shining on him as he spoke? He
proclaimed the Gospel in truth and in great humility. The glory wasn't
anything he saw, or was even aware of, but those who listened saw it.
Moses didn't know he had the light shining on his face either. But the
people noticed it. I think it is interesting that Moses put a veil
over his face in the presence of the people, (humility) but removed it
when he was in the presence of God. Oh that we would remove our veils
(masks) when in the presence of God, and allow him to speak to us in
such a way that others know we have been in his presence, and they are
drawn there too.
Susan in Wa.
revdlk in nebraska Thanks for your reflections concerning your sermon
preparation. I know what it is like to want to speak to all the ages
in one’s congregation and be relevant. But your speaking about the
teenager’s and their reaction made me think about my Christian
journey.
When I was a teenager (and maybe a little before that), there was a
blind man in one of the churches I attended, who during the service
would "get happy", "shout", "become filled with the Holy Spirit,"
because of a song, or the sermon, or whatever else might have take
place.” During the rest of the service he would express himself by
saying "Glory!". We teenagers would snicker, giggle, and/or time the
intervals between his expressions of "Glory's!" Other adults would
give us the eye, or look harsh at us, for our giggling, etc. So as I
grew older and matured, I learned to apply the Mary rule, "pondered
his expressiveness in my heart." I have speculated that deep in his
soul, and in his mind’s all seeing eyes, he has seen the “Glory of
Christ face to face.” I don’t know his name, and I’m quite sure he has
passed on to Glory, but I have never forgotten his expression, and
though I don’t say it out loud before, during and after service,
(shucks all day every day), I get happy and shout“ “Thank You Jesus”
This past week, I had a mountain top experience. I still remember, and
have shared it with a few family members, and friends. But I don’t
want to be tempted to stay on the mountain. Probably because I don’t
want “the teenager’s snickering at me.” But I Thank God for all of the
“saints” I use to snicker and giggle about. I thank them for the
Spiritual guidance, and my total journey growing up. And If I have a
witness of any kind, I hope some teenager will hear my expression of
faith journey, and later be able to say, “Glory”
Shalom, bammamma
In doing some more grunt work on these pericopes, I'm drawn more to
the "veiling" and its metaphor of ignorance, of the shining
countenance of theophany. (BTW, thank you for the Anne Lamott quote).
It's likely that Moses put the veil on to prevent being profaned in
between the times he spent with God.
Back in those days, folks believed that gods (though the Israelites
worshiped Yahweh, they nonetheless recognized others had gods, too)
had luminescent skin. So, it's not surprising that Moses' face shone,
too. (from notes in the New Interpreter's Study Bible)
I'm thinking of Paul's using "veil" as a metaphor for ignorance ~plus~
Jesus' words, "You faithless and perverse generation..." (again from
notes in the New Interpreter's) The disciples still failed to grasp
who/what Jesus is - even after the theophany.
I disagree that Moses veiled because of humility. At least not
consciously. Rather, it was a way of removing the veil - coming into
the presence, the glowing presence, of God and understanding. A way to
set apart time with God, to mark the occasion - and the Word from On
High.
Unfortunately, as Jesus indicates, the veil remained. And still later,
as Paul indicates, persisted.
Where in our lives do we persist in our ignorance of faith? (I recall
Job's wife: "why do you persist in your faith?") The paradox is that
where we most persist in ignorance, is where we're least likely to
recognize it!
Sally
Just a couple of things I noticed. First that the disciples were
'weighed down with sleep', but 'since they stayed awake' they saw
Jesus transfigured -- It took some effort on their part to experience
this.
Also, someone pointed out to me that Peter not unlike the church was
uncomfortable with this mystical experience and tried to distract by
proposing a building project.
I my experience main line churches are a lot more comfortable with the
work and the valleys of faith than they are with the mountain top.
But, without the mountain top, without the experiences that give our
faith an injection of adrenaline, and have us experiencing the glory
of God it is tough and even meaningless to do the work of faith.
KBinAB
Does anyone have any Calls to Worship and Invocation
Prayers/Confessions of Sin that will work well for Transfiguration
Sunday? I am having difficulty finding ones I like. If you know any
good ones, could you please post them, either in the "Call to Worship
and Prayers" area or here? Thanks so much!
Peace and blessings, California Preachin'
Sermon title: "In the Tanning Booth with God"... or "Half Baked for
God"... or "Turn me over, I'm done!"
Just a few humorless titles...
"Red faced for God!"
pulpitt in ND (I've been away for a while...thanks for you faithful...
blessed are the cheesemakers!) ;?)
Two observations/contributions: after "Google-ing," I discovered that
there are folks out there who think the Transfiguration is Biblical
proof that there are UFOs that visit us. I had hoped that this
nonsense had gone away with the 1960's!
The other is something I ran across in Esther de Waal's latest book,
"Lost in Wonder: Rediscovering the Spiritual Art of Attentiveness"
(Liturgical Press, 2003). She quotes from a new translation of the
Rule of St. Benedict: "However late, then, it may seem, let us rouse
ourselves from lethargy. That is what the scripture urges on us when
it says: the time has come for us to rouse ourselves from sleep. Let
us open our eyes to the light that shows us the way to God. Let our
ears be alert to the stirring call of his voice crying out to us every
day: today if you should hear his voice, do not harden your hearts."
de Waal goes on to comment, "So this calls the Transfiguration to mind
with the scene of drowsy disciples being startled by the shining forth
of the brilliant light of Christ, and their ears astonished by a sound
like thunder. This is the divine light, the light which not only shows
us the way to God but makes us more like God, shaping us into his
likeness."
When we are "overshadowed by a cloud," drowsy disciples that we are
from time to time, terrified that we can't fall back to the law and
the prophets with all certainty that should be reserved for God, we
need to look for the divine light of Christ and listen for the
thundering voice that proclaims we are to listen to Jesus!
OLAS
This illustration appeared in the Rumors newsletter to which I
subscribe (more info at the bottom). It's rather good.
FROM THE BOOKSHELF – The spirit dancing A story about Christ’s
transfiguration first published in Aha!!! by Ralph Milton
"What happened, Peter?" Mark asked. "I can't tell you. Not now," Peter
answered. "Are you OK? You and James and John. You look awful!" "No,
we're not sick, Mark." Peter was shaking a little. "Just leave us
alone, OK?" It was years later when Mark finally heard the story of
what had happened that day. It seemed like a lifetime ago. Jesus, the
one they thought was the Messiah, had been executed like a common
criminal. Strung up on a cross. But then he'd come back and been among
them. And later, Holy Spirit came to all of them at Pentecost. "What
DID happen to you, that day on the mountain," Mark asked Peter. "You
didn't want to talk about it then." "I didn't know what it was about
then." Peter was smiling. "Well now that you know, tell me." "I still
don't know anything," Peter said. "But I understand. There's a
difference." "I don't get the difference. But never mind. Just tell me
what happened." "Well, Jesus asked me and James and his brother John
to go up with him to the top of the mountain. We thought he was just
going to pray. But all of sudden, Jesus changed. His face shone. It
was like looking into the sun. And his clothes turned white. Really
white." "That's just like what happened to Moses!" "Yeah," said Peter.
“And then there were two people with Jesus." "Who?" Mark asked.
"Elijah and Moses." "How did you know?" "I don't know how we knew,"
said Peter. "But we knew. And Jesus was talking to them." "What did
they say?" "I couldn't hear. And Jesus wouldn't tell us afterward."
"So what did you do?" said Mark. "I didn't know what to do. I said to
Jesus, 'Shouldn't we build three little houses here? I could build one
for you, one for Moses and one for Elijah.'" "Why would you want to do
that?" Peter laughed. "Because I can't think under pressure, that's
why. So I say something dumb." "What did Jesus say?" Mark asked. "He
didn't say anything. A bright cloud came and covered him. Then we
heard a voice. James and John heard it too. You can ask them." "Was it
God?" "It must have been. The voice said, 'This is my Son. I love him.
Listen to him.'" "That's all?" asked Mark. "That's all!" "What did you
do?" "We were so scared. We fell flat on our faces. But then we heard
Jesus saying very gently, 'Don't be afraid. Get up.' Mark was shaking
his head. "I don't get it. Every time I think I understand, I hear
something new. But it's funny, Peter. I hear you tell that story and I
feel strong and good and happy inside." "Yeah!" Peter was laughing. "I
know what you mean. It kinda gets the old spirit dancing, doesn't it?"
For information about Aha!!! and lots of other resources, check out
our website at: www.joinhands.com
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Posted by California Preachin'
Has anyone tried looking at the Exodus passage, the 2Cor., and the
Luke passage to see the connections about a change in appearance after
encountering God? I thought it interesting to find this thread - Even
Jesus' appearance changed when he began praying to God at the
Transfiguration. Just wanted some other comments on the possiblity of
this theme: "IS YOUR FACE SHINNING?" Vic in Al.
A W-G asks how the disciples recognised Moses and Elija. I always
figured they had their trading cards. "Trade you a Moses for an Aaron
and any two minor prophets."
Olas, Want a wierd Science-fiction-like notion to munch on? What if
what the disciples were experiencing was the actuall moment of contact
these two past prophets were having with God. Jesus telling Elija "Go
back down. I have 700 you don't know about, and I'll fix you up with
Elisha." To Moses, Jesus is saying, "What do you mean they broke? Go
get some more tablets and do it over." Or perhaps,"No, you can't go in
but I'll show it to you." No, those things happened in Peter, James
and John's past, you say? If Jesus is God incarnate then the holy I AM
is present in time and space and those with him are touching infinity
and eternity. Maybe they are standing in viewing distance to the place
where all time meets in NOW. Maybe Elija and Moses, from that same
place, are seeing the disciples and knows the future is safe. Maybe
this is Moses' view into the Promised Land from that final mountain
top he climbed. Too wierd to wrap your mind around? Truth is stranger
than even sci-fi. It probably won't preach, but to think so far
outside the box may remind you how awesome God really is. It might
make you a little shiny, yourself, to push the imagination when
thinking on God. Magi in the Middle
Vic in Al,
Yes, I have seen the same connection and I am calling my sermon "In
His Presence" talking about prayer. Susan in Wa.
I am pondering the analogy of a Native American vision quest in
relation to this text. They go up on the mountain to pray. It is an
intentional trip. It is a high mountain, not an easy jaunt. Just as a
Native American vision quest would likely involve an animal spirit
guide, so the visions of Moses and Elijah, the use of the greek word
“exodon” (departure – exodus), the cloud, all fit into what might be
the cultural expectations of religious visions for the disciples.
Lent then becomes our vision quest time. Huston Smith in his book, Why
Religion Matters, has a section on the difficult of the spiritual
path.
A part of the message must then be, if you want a mountain top
experience you have to put in the spiritual energy of the quest.
Anyone with a better understanding of N.A. vision quests that can tell
me if this is an apt analogy?
Steve Hermes, Lander WY
I see an illustration of this passage on this webpag when, two days
ago, Tammy broke into the discussion and raised her daughter up for
our concern. Up until that point, we were going about our regular
routine, living our lives and existing in comfortable community
together. The news of her daughter breaks in and, in my mind, our
purpose as the family of God is clear- pray, support, love. We are
transfigured from a casual community of pastors worrying about Sundays
sermon into the community of faith rallied together for one in need.
And then we slipped back into our posting, our worrying about Sunday's
sermon and became our casual community once again.
(An aside, has anyone had the thought that this is a 'Superman' story?
Jesus pops into a cloudy fogbank and comes out 'Transfigured Man!' The
mild mannered preacher sheds his nerdy glasses, rips off his robe and
is revealed in his true identity, with his two trusty companions at
his side)
My reflections for this Sunday are a bit off of the discussion here- I
have been thinking about how dull we have made our religion. Where is
the wonder in our hearing of this story? We toss words like love,
peace, resurrection, and God about with such casual ease. And yet,
stories like this one should serve to remind us of God's wonder-filled
eternal presence with us, Jesus' wonder-filled place in our lives, our
wonder-filled place in God's kingdom.
Where is our awe? Where is the heart leaping to our mouths as we see
Christ revealed? Where is our jaw-dropping fear as God speaks? Why are
we not fainting before this amazing display? Where is the laughter as
we hold the awesomeness of God beside the ordinary of our lives?
For Sunday, I am going to press myself and the congregation to stop
seeking answers for a moment (and finding fault- listen to the
carping- the disciples couldn't heal, the disciples didn't get it
right, the disciples wanted to sleep... blah- why focus on these weak
features of the story when Jesus transfigures before us?) and simply
reside in the awesome questions that this story raises. How wonderful
is God? How great is Jesus? What waits for us up on the mountain? Down
in the valley?
Sure, we've all said that we have to go back down the mountain as if
we are forced to trudge back into our ordinary demanding lives... but
have you ever thought that God, Jesus and this radiant display go with
us too? And possibly, it was also there with us all the time... if we
had the eyes to see and the ears to hear? We don't just walk up a
mountain with our savior... he's been along for the journey the entire
time. God didn't just break through in one moment of glory... God's
there in each moment of our day.
My hymn for Sunday- Open My Eyes That I May See The first line of our
congregational prayer- Creator, Save us from being dull Christians
with all the answers...
TB in MN
To Vic in AL, I'm using those three readings and my sermon is titled
"The Great Unveiling", challenging folks to take/make/DEMAND time for
the (sometimes tough) mountaintop experience, and then suggesting some
ways to keep the shining face when we're in the valley. Jesus
retreated for prayer when the valley became overwhelming, and that for
me is a model which works well in today's hectic/frantic pace of life.
How else can we be "little Christs" for others we meet in our journey
if we don't allow our faces to shine, if we don't remove the veils
that keep people from seeing the Spirit of God awakened within us up
on the mountaintop? KASinNJ
KASinNJ
You ask how we can keep the glow. Question: Is the glow the product of
the person who has it? IMO, we don't produce the glow nor do we
maintain it. It either exists or it doesn't. I do believe that it
takes eyes that it requires "eyes that can see" inoder to see it. It's
a "God-thing." A question that needs to be addressed is "can we see
our own glow?" And if the answer is Yes, then how do we avoid
narcicism.
West Texas Presbyterian
West Texas Presbyerian
Steve Hermes - I like the thought, "if you want a mountain top
experience then you've got to put forth the spiritual energy of the
quest."
I also like the post immediately following: TB in MN - "save us from
being dull Christians with all the answers."
It seems that "having all the answers" is the sloth that expects
mountain top experiences without climbing the mountain. Get the
answer, and then there's no reason to go any further!
Good insights, y'all!
Sally
Dear California Preachin',
One trigger for a person with epilepsy is a condition called
"photosensitivity": bright light, strobe lights, light changes cause a
seizure. The seizure at the base of the Mount of Transfiguration was
caused by Jesus and the brilliance of his clothes and face. Jesus held
both the cause and the healing of his epilepsy.
I've been there, done that. Now I am healed of epilepsy. Still can't
stand strobe lights!
The Tonic Clonic Kid
KASinNJ
You ask how we can keep the glow. Question: Is the glow the product of
the person who has it? IMO, we don't produce the glow nor do we
maintain it. It either exists or it doesn't. I do believe that it
takes eyes that it requires "eyes that can see" inoder to see it. It's
a "God-thing." A question that needs to be addressed is "can we see
our own glow?" And if the answer is Yes, then how do we avoid
narcicism.
West Texas Presbyterian
West Texas Presbyerian
I think I'm being called to look at Peter's desire to build those
tabernacles (or booths). It seems as though he wants to hold onto the
moment. The theme of my sermon will be focused on "letting go".
Although this must have been difficult for Peter, imagine what would
have happened if he had his way - Jesus would never have been
crucified and glorified on the cross. Its funny how when the
temptation of holding onto the moment seize Peter's mind, God breaks
in.
A Pastor on the Jersey Shore...
Fred Craddock says:
"Who has not heard interpretations of the transfiguration joined to
the following story of a healing that offered a 'mountaintop
experience' followed by the admonition to 'come down to the valley of
service'?
"For Jesus, the transfiguration confirmed who he was and assured that
the announced path before him was not only according to the law and
the prophets but was the will of God for him. For the apostles, the
experience told them that Jesus was God's Son and to be obeyed as he
instructed them on the way to Jerusalem and death.
"One thing is clear: Jesus and his three disciples have an experience
of God. Its meaning for Jesus and for them is different, but the only
actor in the event is God. Jesus is not acting but is being acted on.
The God of Moses and Elijah affirms them in their unity with Jesus but
asserts the finality of Jesus. The God who could rescue the Son from
suffering confirms for Jesus the way of the cross. This God also telss
the disciples, who will soon face conditions that seem to derail if
not bring to an end ther hope in Jesus, that those very painful
conditions do not lie across the way but on the way to the completion
of God's purpose. This is a mountaintop experience but not the kind
about which persons write glowingly of sunrises, soft breezes, warm
friends, music, and quiet time. On this mountain the subject is death,
and the frightening presence of God reduces those present to silence.
In due time, after the resurrection, they will remember, understand,
and not feel heavy. In fact, they will tell it broadly as good news."
Shalom
Within the last two months, I’ve lost both of my grandparents. We
buried my grandmother on Valentine’s Day. Perhaps for this reason, I
do not see the valley simply as our work or service. Rather, I see it
as the psalmist’s valley of the shadow of death. Jesus appears with
Elijah and Moses – Moses, who died on the mountaintop in God’s
presence, Elijah who was taken by God. Jesus is greater than they are,
yet he will not be spared as they were – he will suffer and die,
crying “My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?” The disciples do
not believe Jesus when he tells them he must suffer, but God confirms
this with the words “Listen to him!” The only way forward is through
that valley of death, not only for Jesus but also for us. Jesus will
lead us on the exodus, taking us through the wilderness of death to
the promised land of God’s glory.
I’m leaning toward a teaching sermon, using this text to help us
prepare for the Lenten season, encouraging us to walk through that
valley with Jesus as we follow him to the cross.
Leanne in AL
Playing with Luther's "Theology of the Cross." We tend to think that
"seeing God" happens on the mountain and "doing God", (i.e., service)
happens in the valleys. However for Luther, God became even more
visible in the valleys.
RevJohn in Juneau
