Scripture Text (NRSV)
Luke 6:27-31
6:27 "But I say to you that listen, Love your enemies, do good to
those who hate you,
6:28 bless those who curse you, pray for those who abuse you.
6:29 If anyone strikes you on the cheek, offer the other also; and
from anyone who takes away your coat do not withhold even your shirt.
6:30 Give to everyone who begs from you; and if anyone takes away
your goods, do not ask for them again.
6:31 Do to others as you would have them do to you.
6:32 "If you love those who love you, what credit is that to you? For
even sinners love those who love them.
6:33 If you do good to those who do good to you, what credit is that
to you? For even sinners do the same.
6:34 If you lend to those from whom you hope to receive, what credit
is that to you? Even sinners lend to sinners, to receive as much
again.
6:35 But love your enemies, do good, and lend, expecting nothing in
return. Your reward will be great, and you will be children of the
Most High; for he is kind to the ungrateful and the wicked.
6:36 Be merciful, just as your Father is merciful.
6:37 "Do not judge, and you will not be judged; do not condemn, and
you will not be condemned. Forgive, and you will be forgiven;
6:38 give, and it will be given to you. A good measure, pressed down,
shaken together, running over, will be put into your lap; for the
measure you give will be the measure you get back."
Comments:
"A good measure, pressed down, shaken together, running over, will be put into
your lap" -- I have read that this referred to how a vendor weighed or measured
things. One would never shake a container in able to make more room to give the buyer more
products for the same price. I have often wonder if this was a 'grapes & wine' image.
Any thoughts on this? Joe in AZ
"For He is kind to the ungrateful and the wicked!"
What a striking verse. To follow God is to do what God would have done. And my God is
merciful and kind to even the wicked and the ungrateful.
This passage is great to read and to debate, but so hard to live by. When was the last
time I actually love my enemies, or do good to those who hate me? Especially "give to
everyone who begs from me"? (What about those beggars who are healthy and beg in
order to buy more alcohol?)
Interestingly, v.34 refer to "lending" and not just give away, and therefore
some balance can be implied here.
Coho.
Taking the story of the "risen" Joseph in Genesis, we have here a reflection
in late Epiphany of the "expressions of the risen life" in Joseph and in
ourselves. Indeed, to live out these New Testament proverbs is to live in the new
creation.
tom in ga
In my youth group and Sunday School class lately I have a heard a lot of anyone can do
good deeds. Meaning that anyone can be a philathropist, but Christians are different. As I
read this text I am asking myself if as Christians we put this into practice. "Expect
Nothing in Return" I know of one man that continually did for others, way beyond what
we normally would expect to do, even put his life in danger many times - he never expected
anything in return. This is truly a call to Christian conscience. Can we step beyond our
self and go where no man ever goes, putting our own lives in danger for the mission of
Jesus Christ? PH in Ohio
Wonderful connection with Genesis here. Didn't Joseph live these verses?! pastor kat
It seems in Luke 6 Jesus is beginning to lay out a kind of blueprint for a new world, a
new land - a new kingdom. The expectations are sometimes quite upsetting to the status
quo. They certainly were in the synagogue in Luke 4. After the blessings and woes get the
listeners' heads spinning, next come the how -to's, and they are really different from how
we think the-way-life-is. But they are the-way-new-life-is. I can just hear the crowd
(because I hear myself as I read this passage) saying to each point Jesus makes -
"Yeah, but...." Maybe that's what these are, the 'yeah buts' of the teaching on
the plain. Great stuff for preaching the big picture of what Jesus is
presenting/describing/announcing as God's way in life. And perhaps to live in the kingdom
Jesus invites us to, these are the ways, and there are no buts about it. Jim in CT.
Seems like this passage is telling us that God expects us to do more than ordinary
human kindness. To go the extra mile.
The golden rule verse is interesting. Do we not always want to be treated better than
we are? It seems like many are hurt because someone's actions did not live up to their
expectations. Just rambling. NCin Wi
Talk about "new math!" WOW! But we know that God's arithmetic is foreign to
man's, don't we. For instance, share a blessing and multiplication is used, but share a
burden and division is the math. It seems to me here that "entitlement" is part
of the lesson. To live as God lives and to look at others as God looks at others is to
relinquish any and all sense of entitlement. After all, what right have we to expect
anything in return for good? If we are talking about fair play, that is school yard stuff
and a juvenile faith. Is good really good if the motive for the good is not good? This is
Jesus saying that God, who is Love, in love does not feel entitled to a response in kind
when love is offered. That would not be Divine love, would it. Kingdom stuff is radical
stuff, isn't it. O how far we have yet to go. Just some ititial thoughts in the struggle.
gaiintex.
May I suggest a great little book by William Countryman entitled: Forgiven and
Forgiving. Countryman reminds us that forgiveness is not about the past but the future;
and how we engage the future has to do with what we do with our past. It seems to me that
the Joseph Story speaks directly to this and Luke sets before us the proverbs of the new
age which reflects a risen life (I Corinthians) that comes in living the paschal mystery.
tom in ga
These Proverbs of the New Age were lived by Joseph as he encountered his brothers who
had treated him harshly. There is nothing new here - simple proverbs of those who live
within the covenant.
tom in ga
Thanks, tom in ga., sounds like a good book. I've heard the sentiment before, that
forgiving is actually fore-giving. The past can't be changed, but I can give you an open
future, empty of pre-judgement, that allows you to be a new person. What a powerful gift!
I wish it were easier to give. tom in TN(USA)
I am looking at this passage & the Psalms passage. Two questions arises for me. I
hope you all can help. 1. Psalms is talking about the wicked fading like the grass &
being cut off. Then Luke in V35 "because He (God) is kind to the ungrateful &
wicked. & V36 God is merciful. Isn't this a contradiction? Or is God through Christ
being kind & merciful to the ungrateful & wicked? 2. Psalms reminds us not to
follow the ungrateful & wicked. And Luke reminds us to love them. Can we do both? I
believe so but not sure how except through prayers & actions. Psalms makes it sounds
like we should not worry about the wicked because they will get their just rewards through
God's judgement. 'Revengence is mine sayith the Lord' But Luke seems to be telling us
different. Sorry this may not be making much sense. I am rambling because I am a bit
confused. Any thoughts would be VERY appreciated! MZinWV
"It seems in Luke 6 Jesus is beginning to lay out a kind of blueprint for a new
world, a new land - a new kingdom."
The above comment comes at the outset of Jim in CT's comments on the passage. You may
be interested in knowing, Jim, that during this season of Epiphany, the staff of Prince of
Peace Lutheran Church of Burnsville, Minnesota, who publish a resource called, "Tool
Kit," which helps congregations develop thematically-rooted worship, preaching,
Sunday School curricula, youth group resources, and personal devotion materials, is
presenting a series called, "New World Explorers." The idea is that the Savior
Who comes into our world ushers us into a new world. Clearly, practicing the
counter-cultural life style Jesus here commends represents a break from the "old
world" from which we've been delivered (Second Corinthians 5:7). Mark in Ohio
A few ideas... (1) Jesus is kind to the ungrateful and the wicked...People like me?
(2) "It's the kindness of God that leads to repentance..." God's kindness in
Christ turns our lives around.
(3) One commentator I read on this passage pointed out that "turning the other
cheek" or offering a shirt are not passive responses. They are proactive actions
which demand responses, ones that have carry with them the potential for changing
relationships. This means being creative in the face of hostility, enmity, indifference.
So, Jesus is calling us to be co-creators with Him of new human relationships with God
and among people. I'm put in mind of the Switchfoot song, "New Way to Be Human."
(4) Abraham Lincoln was once criticized for his proposals for Reconstruction
(reconstructed relationships?). The radical Republicans thought it too kind to the South.
Lincoln responded with something like, "Haven't I, by befriending a person destroyed
an enemy?"
Just some random thoughts.
I really appreciate the comments by others I have read here thus far this week. Thanks
for your insights!
Mark in Ohio
I'm stuck. Being a feminist, and a woman (yes I know some of you men out there are
feminists too)I hear some old tapes playing that sound like "Stay in the marriage
even if you're being abused...remember Jesus' words 'turn the other cheek.'" Help me
get out of that anti-Christian message. Just starting my preparations for this Sunday's
sermon. BB in IL.
My theme this week is "Just Do It." The only way to fully experience the
grace and gravity of kingdom living is to "Just Do It." It means getting out of
the rut of expectations, social pressures, or reciprocity which are so much a part of our
human experience and our human condition. Be radical. Do it because you are radically
loved and really redeemed - freed to be God's child in a world which needs new,fresh, and
alive witnesses. MB on America's Roller Coast
As a child of the Sixties (1960's), this speaks to me of radical Christianity. In fact,
I've been looking for information on MLKing and Ghandi's methods of change. They were
radical, as were those of Gloria Steinhem and Nelson Mandella. Why is it that change,
significant social change, always has to come through some big upheaval? If we all lived
the way Christ suggests in this passage, would we still need change?
ANYWAY. My point is that unless we are willing to live radically -- differently than
the world expects -- we are not really living a Christian life. We may be living what one
person calls "churchianity." (see www.discipleship.net/radical) I don't know who
runs this site, but a lot of what is said on it makes sense. Some of it is too radical for
me, but then I'm talking to rural folks with a strong tie to their building and their land
and their traditions . . . See what you think.
My husband told me of Ghandi's statement: I like your Christ, I just don't like your
Christians. They are so unlike Christ"--Mohatmas Ghandi
Will it take radical Christianity for the Kingdom to come, or can we continue in our
present modus operandi assuming that we will be among the chosen when Christ returns?
Where do the Pharisees leave off and the disciples of Christ begin.
Just thoughts.
RevJan
When was the last time you responded to a long list of things to do using similar
words: “This is asking a little too much.” “They’ve got to be
kiddin’.” “Who does s/he think I am?” “Do I look like God?”
“Will there be anything else?”
One could be tempted to respond in the same manner after reading Luke 6:27-38. Listen
to what all Jesus wants from us. Love your enemies. Do good to those who hate you. Bless
those who curse you. Pray for those who abuse you. If someone strikes one side of your
face, turn the other side to them and let them hit it too. If someone takes your coat give
them your shirt too. Give to everyone who begs from you. If someone takes your goods, do
not ask for them back. Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. Expect nothing
in return. Be merciful. Judge not. Condemn not. Always forgive.
After reading this list of things to do we might be tempted to respond to Jesus by
saying, “Is that all?!?” “Will there be anything else?” Is all this
humanly possible? No. But with God all things are possible. The suffering we do for Jesus
is to be redemptive and not regretful. RM in GA
This is my first post here but I wanted to respond to BBinIl. I agree that this passage
can be troubling both for adults who are in abusive relationships and for children who are
abused. Unfortunately the scriptures have sometimes been interpreted to encourage a person
to put up with with this type of behavior. I think sometimes our society has no clue what
real "love" is. The love that Jesus calls us to here is a radical one; a one in
which we can love that individual but it does not mean that a person has to put up with
treatment which is unloving. Sometimes love means having to leave that person. Too often
with abuse the individual can't see themselves as loved or loveable; they see themselves
as worthless; they need to be reminded of God's love too. One author I read talked about
that forgivness is a process and for some it never happens but what can happen is that
they can pray for God to forgive. This is an issue that I struggle with as well, I know
that I don't have all the answers but I also believe that abusive relationships are not
relationship based on love. Don't know if that adds anything or is helpful... dhcinks
To BB in IL... To leave the abusive relationship IS to turn the other cheek. The first
blows are physical. The second attack is the emotional pain of knowing that the love
investment, the time commitment, the relationship which held such initial promise, MUST be
terminated. The next step is to be gracious to self, and then gracious to the perpitrator
through forgiving prayer and generous intercession... JH
MZ in WV - if you check back here, check my response to you in the "psalm"
section.=, concerning the parallels between the Gospel and the Psalm. I actually see them
as being quite the same!
revo
BB in IL, The only reasonable response to abuse is to "turn cheek" and run.
Escape. There are folks who will help. Staying in an abusive situation only dehumanizes
the abused, and can in some cases, build to an outbreak of vengeful violence against the
abuser. God's purposes are not served in either case."Be merciful" to all, also
includes self. tom in TN(USA)
Hi all--
Long time reader and borrowed, first time poster. I'm a Lutheran Pastor from Indiana
that has really appreciated all of your insights. I love this sight in that we can share
whatever ideas we've come up with and together have even better ideas. Here's my random
thoughts....
Thanks for reading and sharing Matt from Indiana
Notes for Luke 6:27-38
Section on Doing—last week was section on being
27—I tell you who hear me: Again addressed to believers….
27—Love your enemies Not an emotion, but an act of the will….
This is not a new saying, but a very old saying with a twist. “What is hateful to
you, do not do to someone else.”
That’s fairly easy, and it makes sense. But Jesus takes it a step farther. Instead
of passively do doing hateful things, Jesus tells us “Do to others as you would have
them do to you.”
“Destroy an enemy with honest love”—possible sermon theme—look at
examples… ML King, Gahandi
29—How can we respond like this? I don’t want to clearly look at sections
like this. Much rather preach on the happy ending of Joseph (technocolored
dreamcoat….) in the OT or the resurrection in 1 Cor 15th. But we need to examine what
Jesus was saying.
I’ve always thought this was the “be a wimp” section of the Gospel.
What’s Jesus talking about—turning the other cheek, giving away your clothes to
robbers….
It’s been said that a leader should never ask another person to do something that
he or she doesn’t want to do. But Jesus had done everything here…
He did turn the other cheek repeatedly when He was struck by the soldiers, and He
willingly gave away His undergarment to go to the cross for our sins….
Everything that Jesus asks of His disciples, He Himself has first done on their
behalf….
It certainly was within His “rights” to have avoided the cross. It
wasn’t fair what Herod and Caiphus and Pilate did!
But isn’t that just what He did for us hours before He was nailed to the cross?
Who are our true enemies? Purdue fans are not really enemies of IU fans. People that
prefer one style of music are not enemies of people that prefer another style. Ford owners
aren’t true enemies of Chevy drivers.
We really don’t have enemies in this country, so we argue over the dumbest things.
Our only true enemies are those enemies of the cross of Christ, and that’s who
Jesus is talking about. Not that when someone would mug us outside the mall that we let
them hit us in the face a few more times or take off our shoes when the person steals our
coat.
We live in a land of religious freedom, so this doesn’t make much sense to us
today. But it sure hit home for the Christians as they were used as lighter fluid and set
fire as torches or lion food at the Coliseum.
So how do we do all of these things? How do I love those that aren’t loving to me?
The last verse in the second paragraph has the answer: Be merciful, just as your Father is
merciful.
We don’t get what we deserve. Jesus didn’t get what He deserved.
I laugh every time I hear: “Life’s not fair!” THANK GOD! Fair would mean
my spending eternity in hell because of my sinful nature and the sins that I’ve
committed: sins in the way I think about other people, the words that I speak, and my
actions as well. Life being “fair” would mean that you and I—and
everyone—would be condemned forever.
Thank God that he is kind to the ungrateful and wicked. That’s you and me! Because
of how unkind His grateful and perfect Son was treated, we have the assurance of eternal
life.
Our true enemies are the ignorant men and women out there that are walking through life
without knowing this truth. Our enemies are those that haven’t heard the Good News of
Jesus’ love and action for all people.
We understand the kind of love the Father has for us. But how can we share that love
with other people? Jesus here says that through Him, our lives can reflect the love that
the Father has for us.... Epiphany—light of Christ…
34—Attitude of forgiveness and grace…. Representative of the Father…who
“is kind to the ungrateful and wicked.”
36—Be merciful: we all can do that. Kindness and concern for someone, even though
they don’t deserve it. Teacher will a borderline test score, our basketball team
taking off the press up 25 points in the 4th quarter is merciful.
But then Jesus has to say “just as your Father is merciful…” Aah, I
can’t be merciful like that!
Sometimes we’re merciful hoping that a favor will be returned…
37—Do not judge: Not prohibited in a court of law, but judgments of believers
against unbelievers. As Jesus’ followers, we are to be merciful and full of
forgiveness and show our Heavenly Father’s love and forgiveness.
I can see why preachers either avoid this section of Scripture or simply make it a
legalistic set of rules that would leave everyone beat up when they walk out the doors.
These verses can be pulled out of context so easily.
(Don’t disciple my child or judge him for his actions…. Don’t condemn
sin, because God simply loves everyone.)
The challenge is to keep the law in its proper perspective. We can either hold it up in
such a way that presents the law is all that is necessary in the Christian life, or we can
avoid it completely and never offend anyone because of their disobedience to it.
38—“For with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.” There is
a correspondence between God’s forgiveness and generosity and the way Christians
forgive each other—This is an amazing statement: that God adopts for the judgment of
humans the standard they use in their relations with each other!
Only Jesus’ forgiveness can enable us to forgive other people.
38—Weird phrase: Robes similar to this one, with a tie in the middle. Pull the
robe up and have a big pocket: pressed down, shaken together and running over, will be
poured into your lap.
Imagine the little child told he could have one pocketful of candy. Grabs a few
handfuls, shoves them in his pocket, pressing down with the other hand…shaking his
pant leg to get as much as he can…grabbing another handful…trying to get a few
more pieces of candy in there… (Children's Message????)
That, Jesus is telling us, is the attitude we should have in forgiving other
people…
Who can respond this way?
You or I, on our own, certainly cannot! But Christ, working in us and through us,
allows us to become forgiving people.
Blessings on your writing!
950 million valentines will be sent this year and a vast amount of money spent on this
day to express our love to others. As I read our Gospel lesson I have to wonder how much
of it was spent on our enemies. I wouldn’t think that very much was. Probably safe to
say less than 1%. Yet, Jesus says we are to love our enemies.
JB in MB
BB in ILL. I agree with Tom in Tn that victims of abuse must seek the courage to get
out (and we may have to seek the courage to help them) of abusive marriages. When there is
abuse, the covenant has been broken already. Love means being truthful with others and
ourselves. An abuser must know it is wrong, and a victim must know they need not live as a
victim - that is not their "identity". They are in charge of their life and not
stuck. God's will is for us to be free and give and receive love freely.JH put it very
well. To reverse a joke I recently heard, Marriage is a word, not a sentence. One way to
pray for such an "enemy" could be to acknowledge to God that we can't be kind
& friendly, we can't like the person or wish them "the best", so we can just
ask God to take care of them, becasue we don't have the strength or grace. How many times
I've said "God, you do it 'cause I sure can't." What's impossible for us is
possible for God, eh?. Jim in Ct.
To add my two cents to BB in Ill -- Not every text works for every situation -- this is
a good example. In another gospel story, when Jesus saw the woman about to be stoned to
death, he did not tell her to turn the other cheek. Instead, he said, "Go..."
--meredith in VA
Thanks for all who responded to my "stuckness" re: the turning the other
cheek...I totally agree that those in an abusive relationship need to turn cheek and run,
and that we can all potentially "love our enemies" but we don't have to be
around them!
I also checked into the parallel in Matthew's Gospel. Seems the Jesus Seminar folk
believe these sayings of turning the other cheek and giving one's coat as well as the
shirt are "case parodies" and that they were never meant to be taken literally
but solely to prompt the listener (or readers) to react differently to acts of aggression.
Also it was interesting to note that Luke left out the admonition to "go the
second mile" which probably hit too close to home thinking it might have offended the
Romans whose conscriptive power it reflects. Therefore it seems that even Luke was being
sensitive to the charge of the golden rule, "Do unto the Romans as you would have
them do to you." BTW, the turn the other cheek is in "red" letters as is
the "Love your enemies" and "Give to everyone who begs from you"
according to the Jesus Seminar. Again thanks to those who I begged for assistance. BB in
IL
It must have been a strange sight, really. Fifty of us, some young and some not so
young, some dressed in the casual attire of a lazy Saturday afternoon, and others dressed
in the ill-fitting garb of prisoners, all standing out beside the block-shaped prison
chapel behind the razor wire fence. We stood there circling a rather large rough-hewn
wooden cross, the one onto which we had just nailed the small slips of paper, the slips
which contained our darkest secrets, our deepest hurts, the worst that any had done to us,
or the worst that we had done to others. In the center of the ring of bodies, a small fire
burned, looking very much like the campfire of some strange breed of boy scouts.
The gathering was a service of letting go, of giving over, of permitting ourselves to
move beyond those barriers which we carried, individually and corporately, that limited
our ability to touch one another, but more, limited our ability to allow God’s touch
on our lives. “A rather bizarre scene,” I thought, as I looked about the circle
of imprisoned teenagers, broken beyond imagination, and church folks who had seen to much
pain to ever again be cynical.
The preacher stood in the middle of the circle, there beside the cross. He held the
well-worn bible, flopping from side-to-side, a circumstance of being opened and closed,
opened and closed, seeking explanations to that which might never be explained, or
perhaps, if he were anything like most of us, just seeking to know what the questions
might be. He stood there peering about him as if wondering what words might have meaning
to this most damaged group, those in the prison garb and those in the Saturday attire. He
cleared his throat, once, and then again.
He began speaking, in a quiet voice, the practiced voice of the religious professional,
gently delivered speech cloaked in the harsh reality of broken lives. We moved in a bit so
that we might better hear.
“The phone call came at night. It was late, very late, in the early hours of the
morning I think. And well, late phone calls usually aren’t good phone calls. It was
my daughter Beth. I knew right away that something was wrong. Parents know these things,
you know. Parents hear beyond the words. Sometimes it’s a blessing. This night it was
a curse.”
The youthful men listened intently, drawn by his words, drawn by the story which he was
beginning to weave.
“It began months earlier,” the preacher said. “We had gone to the
distant city where most of my family lived. Beth had come home from college so that she
might make the trip with us. It was to be a joyous occasion. Beth’s cousin was there,
the one with whom she had grown up, the one with whom she had climbed trees and played
family games of softball. She hadn’t seen him for quite some time. One evening they
went over to his apartment so that they might have a meal together and spend time catching
up on the life of the other. “
The preacher’s voice became strained and he paused for a long moment.
“Beth told me that it was late in the evening and that they had been drinking.
They were sitting on the sofa when he began kissing her. She resisted but he became more
persistent. She told him to stop, begged him to quit, but he would not. Finally, in a
drunken scuffle of ripped clothing and pleadings which went unheeded, he raped her.”
Pinched sobs broke from his quivering lips. Tears flowed down his discolored cheeks and
splashed onto the dusty ground of the prison yard. The preacher looked about at the many
faces of these young men, some whom might have been standing there due to the exact crime
of which he spoke. The preacher looked about him, the anguish of his story cascading
through the circle, touching us all. Finally, he choked out, “He raped her. My nephew
raped my daughter.”
We stood in silence, overwhelmed by the tragedy, overwhelmed by the human trauma being
relived before us. Finally, after long moments, the preacher was able to continue.
“I told my daughter it was okay. I cried with her. I prayed with her. I told her
it was okay, but I knew, we both knew, it would never be okay.”
“I struggled with what to do. Hatred built in my heart for my brother’s son.
If I had seen him on the night she told me, I might have killed him. The hatred grew into
a monster. It controlled me, consumed me. I am a Christian, a preacher. I knew this was
wrong, was sinful, yet; it seemed I could not let it go. So I began to pray. I prayed like
I have never prayed. I prayed every morning. I prayed for months. I prayed that God would
take my hatred away, because I knew that if God didn’t take it away, in the end, the
hatred would kill us all.”
“And then one day, when I least expected it, I began to pray and realized that I
no longer hated. God had heard my cry, and God had done that which I could never do.”
“A few months later, we found ourselves back at that distant city, that place of
my families origin … that place of my daughter’s rape. We were there to grieve
my father’s death. We were there to lay his body to rest. At the grave-side I saw
that young man, and after the funeral, I asked him if we might go for a bite to eat, just
the two of us. And I confronted that young man, not out of anger and hatred, but from a
point of love and loss. I confronted that young man and he and I cried together. It was
only then that I realized that the darkness of that night had brutalized him as well. No
one was untouched by the evil. All had been damaged. But here, awashed in months of prayer
and embraced by God, that young man and I found some peace. Later, he and my daughter were
also reconciled. God had done that which I could never do.”
“A few months later, we received another phone call in the blackness of early
morning hours. It was the broken voice of my brother. It was the voice of grief. His son,
my nephew, had died in the twisting steel and crushing metal as his car failed to make a
dangerous curve and violently smashed into a large tree. My brother then asked,
‘Could you, would you please perform his funeral. He always loved you. Could you
please do his funeral?’ “
The preacher wiped his wet eyes, looking into the heavens as if awaiting God to remove
the pain, the pain which will never truly diminish. He then looked intently from face to
face. “You know, I did do that funeral. And in all of my life that has gone and in
all of my life that is yet to come, I know that I will never be so thankful of anything,
as God giving me the gift of forgiveness. Forgiveness for the sin of my nephew, and
forgiveness for my sin of hate.”
The preacher walked slowly over to that cross, pulled one of those small pieces of
paper from it’s battered sides, and then dropped it into the small fire. Then, one
after another, each one of those young men in the ill-fitting prison garb, and each one of
those others in the casual dress of a lazy Saturday afternoon, did the same. And then,
there in that prison yard, there on holy ground, we joined hands and together we, too,
prayed … prayed with the preacher in all of his brokenness, prayed with the preacher
in all of our brokenness, that God might do what we ourselves could never do.
It really must have been a strange sight. A very strange sight, indeed.
Shalom my friends,
Nail-Bender in NC
Thanks for all the excellent insight this week. I am going to ask the congregation to
write down three thing that are important to them. Then the Scripture will be read and
I’ll describe what three things Jesus seemed to think were important -- giving,
loving and forgiving. The title is “Yeah, but . . .” (thanks to Jim in CT).
I’ll let the congregation do their own comparison between the two lists.
Charley in NETx
To BB in Ill,
Is it loving to allow an abuser to stay in her (or his) sin? I beleive the offender
deserves redemption - I must because I desire redemption and I, while not a physical
abuser, am an offender in some sence of the word.
Grace to you my sister. Healing and the Love of od that passes understanding.
Shalom
BB in Ill - There is an article my Marjorie Thompson in the March/April 1992 edition of
Weavings about forgiveness. She talks about what forgivess is NOT: It is not denying our
hurt or suppressing our pain. It is not resigning ourselves to martrydom. It is not
putting the other on probation (and looking for a chance to take forgivenss back). It is
not excusing bad behavior. And it is not forgetting. Forgiveness is simply letting go of
resentment and our desire for revenge. It is deciding not to punish someone for their
offense (not the same as allowing it to continue). And it is participating in God's love,
meaning that forgiveness comes from the divine, not from ourselves. She also points out
that forgiveness is not the same as reconciliation. Reconciliation requires confession and
some kind of restitution on the part of the offender. Forgiveness is not dependent on the
other person.
Bishop Tutu wrote in his book "No Future Without Forgiveness" that
"forgiving means abandoning your right to pay back the perpetrator in his own coin,
but it is a loss that liberates the victim." (p.272).
Hope these are helpful. They may actually relate more to the Genesis passage than to
the gospel.
DG in NYC
NailBender, you've done it again! Thanks, my brother, for such a heart-wrming story
that says it all. Even if I don't use all your stories, you open my heart to new awareness
with each story. Keep up the good work! Grace and peace from RRNMABANK
Hey, MZ in WV, I get where you are coming from in re: Luke vs. Psalms. Keep in mind
three things;
1-For us, the word of Jesus supercedes any and all insights of the OT authors(and NT
too). Whatever glimmers of God appear in human writings, Jesus has known the Father
face-to-face, and heart-to-heart. If there seems to be a disparity, go with guy you know!
2- The psalm says the wicked wither like grass. It does not say this is the will or
desire of God. It is an observation. They fade by cutting themselves off from God, but God
makes it rain on the just and the unjust. Some don't absorb it, like the seed scattered on
rocky soil, because they are not deeply rooted.In one parable, Jesus tells of an
unproductive tree, doomed to be cut down. The gardener pleads,"Let me dig around the
roots, fertilize, and tend to it, and if next year it still hasn't borne fruit, cut it
down." Jesus is the petitioner for second chances.
3- Just because God says "Vengence is mine" doesn't assure that God will
exercize vengence, only that WE are NOT allowed to. With that option restricted, the only
way we have to destroy enemies is to turn them into friends, to "be merciful, just as
the Lord is merciful." When we judge, we aid the wicked in cutting themselves off.
When we reach out to them, we align ourselves with God. Some will turn and begin to bear
fruit. Some will continue to fade. Either end will be the result of the response to grace,
offered by God, through us. Our end will be in the presence of God. Besides that, whatelse
matters? Fear no fret, tom in TN(USA)
I disagree with some of the advice to BB in LL. A person in an abusive relationship
should not necessarily ditch this passage. The voices through the years that have
interepreted "Turning the other cheek" for our society are generally those of
people who have NEVER tried it. Why should we let people who have NO experience following
Jesus tell us what he means. Have you ever turned the other cheek? Like an early
contributor to this discussion pointed out, it is NOT a passive gesture but an ACTIVE,
ASSERTIVE, one. It forces the offending party to face what they are doing. Makes the
consequences obvious. It takes the moral higher ground. It does not mean that an abused
person just continues to take it. Turning the other cheek can be a disarming act. Just
running away may NOT force the offender to face what they are doing. I personally would be
hesitant to advise an abused person to "turn the other cheek" in such a way that
would bring more abuse. Some might find it possible to stand up to the abuser in a way
that would disarm them but my guess is that in most cases it would involve the
introduction of others. Others willing to stand with the victim. Others willing to pay a
price for bring the abuse to light, especially to the attention of the abuser who is not
owning up to consequences of misdeeds.
pHil
Addendum to my last post above- Jesus says to forgive your enemies, period. I always
thought that Paul, in Romans 12:19-20, misquoted Jesus, saying give your enemies food and
drink and thereby "heap coals of fire on their heads"(i.e.,shame them by your
goodness). Turns out Paul wasn't misquoting Jesus, but accurately quoting Proverbs
25:21-22. (But I bet all you knew that already! Well, I'm catching up on you.) Just goes
to show how easy it is to hold onto pre-Christian thoughts and drag them over into our
"faith". Check every tenet through the lens of Jesus. tom in TN(USA)
Joe, You are obviously not from farm country. The reference is to a cereal grain such
as wheat or barley. Picture a bushel basket filled heaping, then pressed down, shaken up;
the grain will settle and any excess will flow over the sides. It would be similar to
measuring a cup of flour. So if you needed to make a Messiatic meal symbolism the
preparation for the bread would be more accurate than the wine. My thoughts anyway. Kansas
Len
I have heard it said: "Don't be mean to others if they are mean to you" This
requires nothing - no response - but Jesus asks us to go into action - Do as you want them
to do to you. Get going and be the reflection of Jesus in the midst.
Fr. Mark - Lumsden, Saskatchewan
"Let there be no recriminations on the way (Genesis) means simply tht the past is
past, there is nothing to be gained by trying to assign to it guilt or innocence, to
determine who was the injurer and who the injured. Everyone will be better off for
concentrating on what is to be." (Bruce Vawter, On Genesis: A New Reading, 1977)
"Life" is my theme this week. There has been powerful and challenging
discussion and illustration in the comments this week. Thank you to all for the insights
you share. Life in spite of problems (Joseph), Life in spite of enemies (Jesus), and Life
in spite of death (Paul's writing). Another thought on this passage is that Jesus is
telling us how to really live, just like all will live in eternity. I agree that nothing
is this tells us we must be passive of accept abuse or any other evil deed. Jesus' words
are action words - words of involvment in active forgiveness, active good-doing , and
active immitating of God through Christ.
DN in NV
This is an exerpt from a sermon of mine on the beatitudes from Matthew, but I think
they speak to the fears that people have about using scripture to keep people down or in
their place:
But first I have to tell you how much I used to hate the beatitudes. Blessed are the
poor in spirit and blessed are the meek, and blessed are the persecuted!
These phrases have been used to keep people down, to keep people miserable for years!
"Sure your life is awful, but some day in the distant future in a land far away you
will be rewarded!"
I Have heard this phrase used to "encourage" women who were being abused.
One woman told me that she doesn't go to church, she hasn't gone in many years, because
when she was growing up the pastor of her church used to commiserate with her mother, who
went to him about the frequent drunkenness and subsequent abuse from the woman's father.
The pastor would say "blessed are the meek and blessed are you when people revile you
and persecute you!" He would tell her that the abuse was her cross to bear. He would
tell her to stay with the husband who beat her, that her reward would be great in heaven.
I even read that "blessed are the meek" was quoted to Martin Luther King Jr.
when he started speaking out for civil rights. The quotes mostly came from white preachers
who said it wasn't time yet for justice. Who said it wasn't time yet for equality. Who
said it wasn't time yet for all of us to live together in God's sight. But Martin Luther
King knew something that we all need to know. First, God's peace is about justice and real
peacemakers must seek justice. Second the time for real justice is always now. For what
Martin Luther King, Jr. saw more clearly than his detractors was that the beatitudes are
not about a future kingdom far, far away, they are about the kingdom of God, now.
This is true about all of Jesus preaching on the kingdom. The part about loving one's
enemies isn't about being a dormat. It is about being part of a radical transformation
such as King and Ghandi were about. It is about seeing a larger picture where even those
we see as enemies, God sees as God's. The divisions are the work of evil and when we love
our enemies were are no longer contributing to evil. Women who are abused can love the
enemy. They don't have to continue to be abused however. I sure don't see that here.
Loving someone doesn't mean helping them to be a part of evil and to do evil.
Pastor Dana Izzo
To BB in IL. You may want to point at Jesus" own response at being slapped, which
was proactive as a turning of the other cheek. It is in John18:22-23. Jesus is slapped,
but he makes a reply, that if he has spoken the truth, "Why did you slap me?"
That passage takes away the victim image in Jesus' own actions. Glad in IL
Haven't gotten a chance to get through all of the comments yet, but just a couple of
things. Jesus says that, by doing so, they will be "children of the Most High."
It is the title given to Mary by the angels for Jesus. In this ethic, we realize who we
are as God's children - not just a generic "children of God," but the body of
Christ on earth.
Jeremias argues that this is not a "higher law," as some commentators would
have it - heaven knows we can't even keep the "lower" one! Rather it is a
completely new ethical stance, one that is God-centered rather than human-centered, that
is, it is proactive and positive, beginning with God's desires rather than our own. This
opens up many new possibilities for us - rather than simply responding, "eye for an
eye and tooth for a tooth," we pro-actively reach out in love, as God does, giving on
the basis of need and of love, rather than simply trying to protect ourselves and what we
deem to be ours. In doing so we are truly "putting on Christ," who knowing what
was to befall him, still continued to reach out in love.
To the question of staying in abusine relationships, etc., what this points us toward
is not simply cowering in fear or striking out as a response to cruelty, but opening up a
variety of options, based on the ethic of love. Setting aside both our fear and anger, how
would God want us to act in such a situation? What would be redemptive? What is He calling
us toward?
Gary in New Bern
First time pastor from lay supply, not even licensed yet. Blessed to be assigned to a
multi-church charge on a "part-time" basis (what's part-time?). I've been there
for just three months and now discover a feud between two communities on either end of the
charge that would make the Hatfields vs. McCoys pale by comparison.
Second service rotates monthly between four churches. Church A won't worship when
service is held at Church B, B won't go to A, and so on. If one puts up posters about an
event, the other goes behind and tears them down! Influential person in the church tells
everyone when and where they should worship. If this person says to stay home, most stay
home! This has been going on so long many have hardened hearts about it all and won't even
try to forgive.
"If you love those who love you, what credit is that to you? For even sinners love
those who love them."
How to get this across with love and still get it across is the dilemma, thanks all for
your many contributions that have become part of the solution! kat
Many very thoughtful, good comments. Thank you.
A number of years ago a psychologist named Jamplosky wrote several books. I remember
one, "Love is Letting Go of the Past" - and so is forgiveness. Refusal to let go
of the past is a cancer that eats people up. If I refuse to forgive, I create my own
prison walls. Once we let it go, our future is open to live in new relationships -
especially our relationship with our heavenly Parent. When people have told me they just
can't forgive what someone did to them, I usually ask them to take a real hard look into a
mirror to see what God must overlook in themselves. Anger is never experienced by the
object of our anger [unless we beat them to death!]. When I've been angry with someone
THEY didn't know how I worried about how I could "get even". Anger destroys the
one who refuses to let it go.
I just heard on the TV news tonight that 250 people have applied to see Timothy McVeigh
be executed. The state of Texas, and our former Governor [now President], signed the Bill
that permitted relatives of the victims of one murdered to watch the execution of the
convicted murderer. This, to me, is the height of vengeance, and an appeal to our baser
natures. How often I have heard the relatives of the victim say, after the execution,
"Now my xxxx can rest in peace." Or, "Now it has 'closure' for me."
The taking of life by the State really bothers me for a number of reasons; but allowing
families of victims to see this, to me, is barbaric. When a State execution occurs, I, as
a citizen of that State, am "pulling the switch" or "turning on the
juice" for a lethal injection. If I stand by and let it happen, I am no different
than the wife [or husband] who is abused by her/his spouse allowing it to keep on
happening. "Oh wrethed person that I am, who will deliver me from this bondage to
death?"
One of the principles of AA is that I take responsibility for my actions. Living in an
abusive relationship [sic!- there is no "relationship" if it's abusive!]is not
showing love for either the abuser or the one being abused. How can I possibly allow
someone else to abuse me without becoming a silent accomplice?
Just a few ideas that ran through my thick skull as I was reading many of the fine
comments above.
Paul in central Texas :-)))
Re: “turning the other cheek”
I’ve found Walter Wink’s interpretation of this passage very helpful.
Essentially it is a humorous lesson in teaching victims to become creatively assertive,
turning the tables on their attackers. In each of the examples (three in Matthew)
retaliation would be suicidal. The only conventional response is cowering submission.
Jesus gives a “third way”. Below I have paraphrased Walter Wink.
Turn the other cheek
In the ancient Roman world, and still today in many cultures, the left hand is a
“bad” hand. It is the left hand that is involved in criminal acts, used for
dirty things like going to the toilet and so on. One seldom used the left hand in public
other than of necessity. To strike someone in public one would almost certainly be using
one’s right hand.
Jesus says: “If any one strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other
also.” Using your right hand, try to strike someone on the right cheek (their right
cheek). The action that works best is a slap, very much like how you would shoo away a
fly.
Jesus identifies his audience: those on the receiving end of dismissive violence, those
swatted away by the powerful. The intention is not to injure - although this wouldn’t
be unacceptable to the attacker - but it is to humiliate, to put the victim in his or her
place. A Roman soldier backhands a peasant, a husband slaps his wife or the mistress
dismisses her slave.
Turning the other cheek presents the attacker with the left cheek and forces the
attacker to use a fist. This forces the attacker to make a choice. Hitting with a fist
implied hitting a peer but the victim is no peer! Hitting with a fist would elevate the
status of the person hit – the attack has gone awry. Instead of crawling away in
shame, the “victim” holds all the cards.
(Mishna, Baba Kamma 8:1-6 says 4 zuz is the fine for a blow to a peer with a fist, 400
zuz for backhanding him; no penalty for attacking an underling.)
Jesus counsels his hearers to rob the oppressor of the power to humiliate. “Try
again. Your first blow failed to achieve its intended effect. I deny you the power to
humiliate me. Your status does not change mine as a human being. You cannot demean
me.”
Give him your inner garment
(Check Exod. 22:25-27, Deut. 24:10-13,17 and Amos 2:7-8 for context) Only the poorest
of the poor would have nothing to offer but an outer garment as collateral for a loan.
Jewish law required the return of the garment before sunset so that the borrower could
have something to sleep in.
Indebtedness was a frightening social ill of Jesus’ day. It was as a direct result
of Roman Imperial policy. Emperors taxed the wealthy so heavily that they sought security
in non-liquid investments, land being the best. Land however was ancestrally owned –
not bought and sold on a market like today. Charging excessive interest forced landowners
to eventually sell their land as they got deeper and deeper into debt. In 66 CE the first
act of the Jewish revolutionaries was to burn the Temple Treasury where the records of
debt were kept.
Jesus counsels his hearers to get naked in court. Give him even your under garment.
Well, imagine you’re the debtor. There you stand in the court stark naked and your
creditor stands, red faced, with your outer garment in one hand and you inner garment in
the other. There was no hope of winning the trial, the law was stacked in his favour but
you have turned the tables, refusing to be humiliated. “You want my robe? Here take
everything! Now you’ve got all I have except my body. Is that what you want
next?”
Nakedness was taboo in Israel and the shame fell on the one who caused the nakedness
(Gen. 9:20-27). The entire system which oppresses the poor has been unmasked. The creditor
is no longer a respectable moneylender but a perpetrator of systemic violence and abuse,
casuing thousands to live in landless destitution.
Jesus sponsors clowning. Jesus is being thoroughly Jewish. A saying in the Talmud
reads: “If your neighbour calls you an ass, put a saddle on your back.”
Walk the extra mile
One of the ways the Roman army used to move its soldiers quickly across the Empire was
to enlist the backs of the locals. A Roman soldier walking along the road was permitted to
call on any subject to carry his pack for him.
But the Roman’s were shrewd oppressors. They knew that discontent amongst the
locals was a sure-fire recipe for disaster so they tempered their oppressions. In typical
Roman efficiency every mile was marked on a Roman road. While a soldier could enlist a
peasant’s labour for one mile he was expressly forbidden to use that particular
person for more than one mile.
Imagine the soldiers surprise when he reaches for his pack and finds the peasant
happily continuing. The tables are turned. Normally the soldier must coerce peasants to
carry his pack, but here is one who does it cheerfully and will not stop! From a situation
of servile impressment, the peasant has seized the initiative. The soldier is begging to
have his pack back
A modern example
During Apartheid, white men were conscripted to serve in the South African
“Defence” Force. Conscientious objectors were arrested and detained. Many times
when these detainees were brought to trial the court room would be in chaos with the
attempts of several white men trying to get into the dock with the accused. These men,
having decided they were equally guilty of not wanting to serve in the SADF wanted to be
tried too. When the court eventually resumed, it did not stop the judge sentencing the
accused but the point was made and people understood.
Hope its helpful Biltong
V. 35: "He is kind to the ungrateful and the wicked" - Seems to me, that
Jesus is talking to you and me! That's the way the sentence flows, anyhow.
Anyone with any thoughts?
revo
Seems to me that the golden rule helps rule out tolerating abusive behavior. If I were
and abuser, I would not want my victim to let me continue in such a destructive way to
others and to my own self.
Now I ask for your help. I am going to do a sermon on giving looking mostly at vs
37-38. I see three possiblly four things that Jesus asked us to give. One is charity, one
is forgiveness, but I am having trouble putting do not judge/condemn in a postivie form.
What is opposite of judging, condmening. Is this tied just to forgiveness. Have thought
about affirmation or encouragement as opposite of these. Any thoughts from anyone would be
appreciated..rbnnc
Thanks - as always - to Nailbender and Biltong as well, for sharing Walter Wink's
observations! Both point to the proactive nature of Jesus' comments, which set a
background for his reinterpretation of the law. This is not pie-in-the-sky theology, with
benefits to be finally obtained in heaven. The Kingdom is present wherever Jesus is. In
acting in a pro-active loving way, we show ourselves to be children of God and members of
the kingdom - even brothers and sisters of Christ! Now we are thinking the way he is
thinking! Now we are in harmony with his ethic! Love looks for that which is redemptive;
and an option is always to bear the cost oneself. Power is executed by our world by
attempting to restrict our options; Jesus, however, opens up new possibilities for
creative response, looking always for the possibility that offers the hope of redemption.
Gary in New Bern
Thanks for the Walter Wink summary. He has redeemed these texts for me.
rbnnc, you got me thinking: It seems to me that not to judge and not to condemn is
about seeing people as God sees them and God intends in their creation: much loved and
longed for children, to see them positively, as potential for right relationship,
potential for living out the reality of salavation, subjects of grace just as I am a
subject of God's transformative grace; to see someone not as I know them to be ( or rumor
or prejudice has them be), but as what they can become - as liberated from their past evil
as I hope to live liberated from my past evil (I know resurrection has freed me, it's just
that I do not always, frankly - seldom, live as if resurrection has freed me). from the
snow covered fields of Wisconsin dairy land
RevJan:
Thanks for your thoughts. I think you are right about "radical" Christianity.
Following Christ is inherently radical--it is in opposition to the world system simply
because it IS, as practiced. The world teaches us to "look out for #1 (That's me),
step over the competition (anyone who gets in front of me) and to retaliate against my
enemy.
Jesus message is "radical" because it is so opposite the world view--indeed
he died partly as the world's response to his message. It was radical!
Biltong: I very much appreciated your historical background info. One question,
however. Where did you get the translation "right" cheek in Luke 6:29? I have
searched over 10 translations and cannot find one which translates this as "right
cheek." Which translation are you using?
I found a great illustration from WWII: Ernest Gordon wrote of his experiences as a
prisoner of war to the Japanese during World War II. He spent three and one-half years in
a prison camp. What happened there could serve as a microcosm of the sorts of things that
can happen in local churches to make them into reconciling, nurturing, witnessing places
in the hostile territory of this world.
Gordon wrote of how the prisoners turned to God in the early days of their imprisonment
and expected him to come to their rescue immediately. When time passed and they were not
delivered, the prisoners began first to question and then to accuse God. Had he forsaken
them? Were his promises to help his people empty? A selfishness emerged among the
prisoners. They fought at the slightest provocation. They stole personal items from one
another. They refused to care for the sick and dying or even to bury their dead.
Then a miracle of love infected the camp. It started when just a few people in the
larger group started practicing agape — the self-giving love of Christ. Some of them
nursed Gordon himself back to health when he became seriously ill. One man starved to
death while sharing his meager rations to keep another man alive. One prisoner took an
undeserved execution rather than have his entire work crew executed after a shovel turned
up missing — a shovel that, by the way, was found later not to have been missing at
all. The guards had miscounted the tools when a detail of prisoners finished its
day’s work.
The agape of the few became as contagious as influenza in the camp. Prisoners began
helping one another. They nursed the sick, comforted the dying, and buried the dead. The
prisoners not only helped their fellow prisoners but even found opportunities to do kind
acts for their enemies. Gordon wrote of the experience he lived: "Selfishness,
hatred, jealousy, greed were all anti-life. Love, self-sacrifice, mercy, and creative
faith . . . were the essence of life, turning mere existence into living in its truest
sense. These were the gifts of God to men." Ernest Gordon, Through the Valley of the
Kwai (New York: Harper and Brothers, 1962), p. 109. Sue in Cuba, KS
To rbnnc - a thought on the opposite of judging/condemning.
Carolyn Brown in her excellent books on children in worship called 'Forbid Them Not'
suggests reading verses 37-39 first to make sense of the rest of the text. If you do that,
the opposite of judging/condemning is loving.
Rev Mom in TX
Have got a bit bogged down with love and translation. Is the 'love' your enemies (agape I am lead to believe) the same as For God so 'loved' the world.
sj(uk)
One piece of interest is that business about giving the other cheek:
Most of us assume that this is a passive act of surrender. If the evil man hits you on the left cheek turn the other one so he can hit you again. Personally, that can get us all in a lot of trouble - and doesn't exactly jibe with the Gospel as a whole.
There's another way of seeing this cheek-turning. When Ghandi was described as advocating passive resistance he said No. There's nothing passive about non-viloent resistance. Instead, he planned to actively resist the tyranny. Though he wouldn't strike back that is not the same thing as surrendering. Jesus doesn't call us to surrender to evil (violoence and abuse). The act of offering the other cheek is as active, defiant an act as can be. If you strike me on my left cheek I have totally lift myself back up, turn completely around, and defiantly offer my right one. It is an act of courage and sacrifice AND active resistance to evil. There's nothing noble about stealing a coat, punching a neighbor, or not paying your bills. Jesus isn't glorifying abuse by others upon his followers. The weapons he gives us to resist injustice begin with love: sacrificial, free of pride. Any idiot can hit back. Anyone can try to get the coat back or sue for repayment. Jesus wants us to show the pure love that doesn't have strings attatched. For that was the love we received - thus it is the love we should give.
pw in pa
tom in TN (USA):
Where did you get the idea that the New Testament supercedes the Old Testament? If Jesus is in conflict with the OT do Jesus' words automatically win? If so we'd better start paying more attention to the Jesus Seminar so we can make sure we get the exact words of Jesus. Then we need to organize his thoughts and sayings so we can figure out which ones are the most important. And are the Gospels more important than Paul's letters? If so, that means that the Narrative-style by a third party is more authoritative than the Epistle-style by an earlier third-person. You might want to re-think your doctrine of scripture a little.
pw in pa
Rev Jan - the site you mentioned, about radical discipleship: I would be a little leery of anyone supposing to have a handle on "the truth" about Christianity, as opposed to what the church believes and preaches. My own church and denomination are full of deviations from Christ's teaching, I'm sure - but for me to say "You're doing it wrong, follow Christ instead, and I myself will show you how!" - well, that's scarey. The church is the bride of Christ, with all its imperfections. We pray for the church, work for the church, even sacrifice our well-being and sanity for the church - but let's not give up on it. kbc in sc
Has everyone been watching "Survivor" on CBS? I haven't been
real "religious" about watching it, however I did catch it last
Thursday night. Mitchell Olson was kitcked off at the tribal
council. Before he left his "tribe" he said words to the
effect that "I'm the weakest link here, Keith is stronger, your
chances of winning are greater if HE stays." Granted, it seemed
almost "real tv"... I first thought he was plotting, but I really
think he expected nothing in return. He was eventually booted off
but I thought his honesty and integrity with this honored departure
smacked the "win at all cost" attitude smack in the face. Luke's gospel
according to Eugene H. Peterson... writes in Luke 6:26 and 35... "To you who
are ready for the truth, I say this: "Love your enemeies. Let them
bring out the best in you, not the worst.... I tell you, love
your enemies. Help and give without expecting a return. You'll never
- I promise - never regret it. Live out this God-created identity
the way God lives toward us, generously and graciously, even when we're
at our worst. Our God is kind; so you be kind!"
Pulpitt@att.net Fargo, ND
One of the main thoughts on the Luke passage has to do with who or what dictates how we behave towards others. If someone doesn't speak, I can see the response of not looking their way, trying not to acknowledge that they did not speak, instead of the Christ like behavior of treating them the way they are supposed to be treated, with love, courtesy, respect, in spite of the fact that they may have just been rude to you. It is a child like behavior that we have a hard time outgrowing this treating people based on how they treat us. We will be nice to the people that are nice to us, we will be mean back to the people that are mean to us. The love of Christ that is described in the text of Luke, presses us to go beyond that normal, human, sinful, response, to learn to treat people like Jesus would treat them. To do this kind of loving will require something in our heart beyond ourselved. People do not have this kind of love, only God does. So it is the love of God, flowing through us, living in us, that will allow us to treat people with the kind of love that Christ is describing. Truly it does require of the Lord to do that in our own heart, that we cannot do for ourselves. Fill us to overflowing with the love of God. Rev Ev in NC, Snow Hill UMC
pw in pa,
You misread me. I did not say that the NT supercedes the OT, nor did I say Jesus was in conflict with the OT(though to answer your question, if there Is conflict; Yes, Jesus wins).
In Matthew 5:17 Jesus plainly says that he doesn't abolish, but fulfills the Law. Is that not an indicator that the Law, as it was understood, was incomplete, or at least unfulfilled? What I should have said, to be more clear(I hope) is that Jesus' understanding and conception of God was more complete and on target than either his predecessors or his peers.
After Matthew 5:17 He goes on to describe specific ways in which his contemporaries obeyed the Law minimally. On killing, adultery, divorce, and vengence, Jesus says,"You have heard.....But I say...", each example pushing the envelope beyond literal compliance to the root nature of the sin. On into chapter 6, he continues to apply a corrective to the way they commonly practice righteousness. All of this I think he does from a superior understanding of the mind of God.
My addendum, acouple of posts farther down, gives the example of Paul quoting Proverbs, paraphrased,"Do good to your enemies. That'll show 'em!" whereas Luke records Jesus as saying, to effect, "Do good, for goodness' sake". I know; Luke writes after Paul, and Jesus spoke before Paul. I won't argue with you or the Jesus Seminar over which, if either, is to be trusted.
What I will say is this- I feel a comprehensive reading of the Jesus statements(the red letter parts) shows enough consistency of thought about God's nature and desire for our natures, that if any other biblical writer says God thinks or feels differently, there is more likelihood of that one misunderstanding God, than of Jesus misunderstanding God. And there is the problem of our misunderstanding the biblical material. The Gospels are bluntly honest about the first disciples misunderstanding Jesus, before the ressurection. I don't know that the Gospels are free of shortsightedness concerning God. In fact Jesus says "There is more you need to know, but you can't handle it yet. Later the spirit will fill you in"(Jn 16:12-15). I think if the Holy Spirit continues to speak, refining our concept of God, it will be in the same direction as Jesus moved his peers, toward a God even more "supercedingly" holy and gracious than we can yet imagine. tom in TN(USA)
Re: the query about which translation used in the Walter Wink interpretation.
Its not a translation difficulty but a Synoptic one.
Luke is not specific about which cheek, but Matthew is. Check Matthew 5:38ff.
Biltong
