Scripture Text (NRSV)
Luke 4:1-13
4:1 Jesus, full of the Holy Spirit, returned from the Jordan and
was led by the Spirit in the wilderness,
4:2 where for forty days he was tempted by the devil. He ate
nothing at all during those days, and when they were over, he was
famished.
4:3 The devil said to him, "If you are the Son of God, command this
stone to become a loaf of bread."
4:4 Jesus answered him, "It is written, 'One does not live by bread
alone.'"
4:5 Then the devil led him up and showed him in an instant all the
kingdoms of the world.
4:6 And the devil said to him, "To you I will give their glory and
all this authority; for it has been given over to me, and I give it to
anyone I please.
4:7 If you, then, will worship me, it will all be yours."
4:8 Jesus answered him, "It is written, 'Worship the Lord your God,
and serve only him.'"
4:9 Then the devil took him to Jerusalem, and placed him on the
pinnacle of the temple, saying to him, "If you are the Son of God,
throw yourself down from here,
4:10 for it is written, 'He will command his angels concerning you,
to protect you,'
4:11 and 'On their hands they will bear you up, so that you will
not dash your foot against a stone.'"
4:12 Jesus answered him, "It is said, 'Do not put the Lord your God
to the test.'"
4:13 When the devil had finished every test, he departed from
him until an opportune time
Comments:
I need story to tell a Sunday School Class.
What age? Nancy-Wi
This is a great text for the first Sunday in Lent. I am planning to talk about my habit for giving up rather odd things during Lent. One year I gave up popcorn, another year I gave up jams/jellies, and another year I gave up raisins. I came to the decision that giving up things for Lent -- resisting the temptation to indulge in something I really enjoyed -- was really about mindfulness. When I would have a craving for popcorn, etc. (I liked popcorn a great deal at the time and ate it regularly), I would be reminded that it was the season of Lent, a season of contemplation about the gift of Jesus Christ. I haven't QUITE figured out yet how I am going to work in my own resistance to temptation of these things I give up, vs. Jesus' resistance of temptation, but I am thinking of going in the direction of not making people feel so darn guilty during Lent. Resisting temptation, repenting, etc. are not about wallowing in guilt over what we have NOT done, but rather a reminder that we belong to God. When we resist the temptation to do something -- as small as eating popcorn, to as life-shattering as having an affair, to whatever tempts us -- we draw closer to God. And that is what Lent is all about. (Although one hopes we are able to resist temptations outside of the season of Lent as well! Maybe I'll talk about that too...) By resisting the devil's temptations, Jesus was able to draw nearer to God also.
California Preachin'
California Preachin (on such a winter's day?)
one of the most liberating things I have ever heard (and unfortunately, I don't remember the source)was that the word lent comes from an old english word that means to lengthen or to add- a word that is used for the coming of spring. SO while many observe a lenten fast of one sort or another,you are also supposed to add something in its place, like a new direction in prayer or study. If you give up your favorite TV show during lent, you are supposed to use that hour (Without a Trace is an hour long) to grow spiritually. If you normally go out to eat at lunch and you fast one day a week instead, you might consider spending the time in Bible study or giving the money you would have spent to a mission project.
Lent is not about guilt-it is the barrenness of winter that promises spring.It is about the times in the wilderness (which may be the most important image for God's people-remember, God's people have come home not once, but twice through the Judean wilderness (exodus and the return from exile) some of the prophets spend time in the wilderness, and John the Baptist comes out of the wilderness.
The wilderness is filled with dangers, yet it is also the way home
revgilmer in texarkana
In reality Jesus did the things that he was tempted to do, but in God's own time and way.
1) Jesus would soon do a marvelous feeding
of the five thousand with 5 loaves and 2
fish.
2) Jesus would ride into Jerusalem as peacemaker
and king.
3) Jesus would defy death - remember the
resurrection?
PH in OH
The relevance of sacred covenant history in liberation and the exodus journey being relived (coming to completion) in the life of Jesus is evident in this desert wilderness experience. Key constructs that could possibly open the door to a deeper understanding of our "reliving" this spiritual journey with Jesus may include: (1)anamnesis; (2) recapitulation; (3)kairos; (4)realized eschatology; (5) the covenant claim of becoming a self before God; (6) the connection between the names "Joshua" and "Jesus"; (7) the paradigms provided in the myths of the birth of the hero, and the hero's journey, as these elements of sacred story are relevant to the autobiographical unfolding of one's "currere"/"curriculum" journey in "becoming a self before God". (8) the reliving of sacred history in the internalization of "praying" this scripture is the essence of liturgy/worship at this time/season of the christian year, thus the re-actualization of this sacred story (this Revelation of the Word) in "transactional dynamics" with our unfolding autobiographical journey of "becoming a self before God".
beginning reflections of PaideiaSCO in north GA mts
Initial observations:
- Luke emphasized the Holy Spirit connection here, that he was "full of the Holy Spirit" and that Jesus "was led by the Spirit in the wilderness". Without the Holy Spirit connection in us, there are a few possibilities to consider: a) we would fall when temptation arises, or b) we would deceived ourselves into legalistic accolade for our own success in the spiritual discipline. I wondered if many were keeping Lent as part of tradition without the Holy Spirit initiation and empowerment. (Well, but this probably not the place to discuss the theology of Lent).
- A weaken physical state opened the door for temptation.
- The first temptation were attacks on the physical need, and the defense was to realize that we are nor wired just for the physical need. The second were attacks on our desire for accomplishment, sense of worth & significant, and the defense there was our humility in worship and service (note the service, how easy it is for us just to worship God, it much harder to serve, because other people are involved there.) I am having problems with the 3rd one, but I see this progression: the 1st will get people beyond the notion that we are just physical matters, atoms and sysnapses; the 2nd will get us to worship the true God among others gods (including ourselves). And if so, the progession will lead as to the 3rd: temptations to stray into various extremes even in our walk with God: experientialism vs. intellectualism, nominalism vs. legalism, etc. (And so, I tend to see this as "levels" of temptation).
- "Opportune time": Great line, the enemy is never quite finished. Perhaps, that why Lent is a great periodic training season for our soul to prepare for his next attempts...
Personally, I am struggling with pride a lot. I have been working hard to improve my preaching to an "acceptable quality" (something that I feel I can please God about). I prayed for unction. And I got some yesterday. The problem is that right afterward, I was bombarded with thoughts about how well I did, etc. Not until the evening, when I went through the evaluation forms (I requested from many who love God and love me), I can get my feet back to the ground again.
Many of you are "professional" at this. Can you point me to the right directions (articles, books, etc.) so I can keep my ugly pride at bay (for I know it will destroy me some day).
Coho, Midway City
Since "The Passion" is also coming out this week, I found this connection to this week's text on the web as well...
[quote]
At the end of Jesus' temptations in the wilderness - where the Bible says Satan left him "until a more opportune time." I imagine Satan never quit tempting Christ, but this film captures beyond words the most opportune time. At every step of the way, Satan is there at Jesus' side - imploring Him to quit, reasoning with Him to give up, and seducing Him to surrender. For the first time, one gets a heart-stopping idea of the sense of madness that must have enveloped Jesus - a sense of the evil that was at His very elbow. The physical punishment is relentless - but it's the sense of psychological torture that is most overwhelming. He should have quit. He should have opened His mouth. He should have called 10,000 angels. No one would have blamed Him. What we deserve is obvious. But He couldn't do that. He wouldn't do that. He didn't do that. He doesn't do that. It was not and is not His character. He was obedient, all the way to the cross - and you feel the real meaning of that phrase in a place the human heart usually doesn't dare to go. You understand that we are called to that same level of obedience. With Jesus' humanity so irresistibly on display, you understand that we have no excuse. There is no place to hide.[/quote]
The quotes above was from "A News Anchor's perspective on 'The Passion of the Christ'" at http://www.facingthechallenge.org/passion3.htm (where he said, 'Nothing in my existence could have prepared me for what I saw on screen last night')...
Coho, Midway City
to PaideiaSCO in north GA mts,
What?
I have heard far too many times from new agers and from the "Contemporary Worship" groups that preaching needs to be "relevant" and that worship needs to be "relevant". When pressing to get a clear definition of relevant, I am often left wanting more.
But, when I look at this passage I see most clearly a message that is highly applicable to the average person. All of us face temptations. COHO in Midway City offers us a great place to start our thinking. (Thanks COHO)
Personally, I try to help our people see this passage as an example of how Christ is able to identify with humanity. (He too was tempted to do that which he knew he should not do.) I've titled the sermon, "On Common Ground."
Steve in NC
I know the Lord will again be speaking to this very small congregation through His word. But the message is still alittle unclear. Our Heating that heats the Chapel went on the fritz and may not be fixed by Sunday. I wonder if they could all go without heat for one hour without complaining. Jesus suffered alot more than that.
Captain Roger Punxy, PA
Often times the "active obedience" of Christ is unfairly and incorrectly overshadowed by His "passive obedience." The temptation narrative nicely accents the importance of His "active obedience." This is what I am preaching about; wrapping up with the both/and that Christ has done for us.
Luther in IA
Steve in NC.
Last week we were on "Holy Ground", this week on "Common Ground".
This is very dangerous piece of common ground, the desert, a place away from the safety of the city.
Today our many cities are more dangerous than the wilderness. Could it be that our relationships can be like a desert, dry and unproductive, not lush and green, and we need to know that the Spirit will be with us all. Nancy-Wi
last line should read, through it all. Nancy-Wi
What Saturday morning cartoon was it that had a little devil on the left shoulder and an angel on the right? Was it Sylvester strugging with whether to eat Tweetie or not? I always loved that one. I am not tempted to eat Tweetie, but if I were to give up mocha lattes or cereal for breakfast, well...I'd have to muster up a lot of will-power.
The battle for will-power we Christians create during Lent parallels Jesus' struggle in his wilderness and our struggle in our wilderness. What does God want us to never forget? Who it is we belong to: God. Will Jesus forget he belongs to God? Can the world and all of its treasurers lure him away from his greatest treasure--his relationship with God? Will it lure us away? Will we forget who we belong to?
I think congregations will be surprised to learn that Jesus found his strength in the scriptures that he had memorized since he was a young boy. That's what weeks and months and years of worship and Bible study will do for you! It could be one of many passages...which verses of scripture stand the test of time (and temptation) for you? I learned my favorite when I played the role of Mother Abyss in our high school production of The Sound of Music: "I look to the hills. Where will I find help? It will come from the Lord, who created the ehavens and the earth." (Psalm 121) revdlk in nebraska
To revdlk in nebraska: I liked the image of the cartoon angel/devil on the shoulders. Was it Fred Flinstone? Yogi Bear? Anyway, thought it was a good one. I also liked the note about memorized Scripture as a source of strength in trial. One minor point: unless you were in a production of "Rocky Horror Picture Show" meets "The Sound of Music" you probably played Mother Abbess, not Mother Abyss. :) LF
To tell you the truth, I'm trying to calm down after receiving a stinging email from a church member. She is a member of the board, which has made a decision against which she is the sole dissenting voice. Her email informed me that she is busily creating a faction of people who agree with her, and that "what I am doing" (it's not what I'm doing, but anyway) is "what got the last Pastor dismissed."
Now I am sorely tempted to send her a blistering email in return, fwd hers to the board, create a faction behind me (?!) and otherwise bully her as she is attempting to bully me.
If the devil came and said, "I have the power to make all church members behave themselves, if you will worship me" - tell me, how many of you would give it a thought? Sigh.
It still wouldn't make a difference - the goal is for them to love one another, which is a gift of the Spirit. The devil might be able to smack them into line, but it wouldn't be a church.
LF
LOL I am a product of the big hair, Excess 1980's. Madonna's tune I made thru the wilderness, yeah I made thru, never thought I'd find love till I found you....(yeah, it's Like a Virgin) But aplly that to Virgin Forest. You know, the pre colonial USA they say Virgin Timber made awesome Wilderness...Some untouched never been done, Now I don't think I will quote Madonna from the pulpit...but the neat point, wilderness, something never done before, GOD Faced Temptation for us! GOD Died for us...Clerically Blonde in West Ohio
LF, I've been sorely tempted also, for several years to avenge myself, justify myself, and prove myself after stinging false accusations/labels from a severly mentally ill person. Notice all the repeats of "myself" ... repeats showing me my wrong, sinful focus. My focus is so happy, so full of joy when kept on the Holy Spirit. He has continually made me able to resist this temptation before my God, wait on the Lord, and know justice will roll like a mighy river when God so ordains. For this reason I'll not preach on Satan and his evil ways or his persitence or even eventual defeat. No, I'm preaching on the Holy Spirit, his holy ways, his persistance, and his moment-to-moment as well as eventual and forever triumph. I'm preaching about being full of the Holy Spirit like Jesus was (Vs. 1), and taking these forty days to become filled the more. I need these forty days. Thank God for this time. Thank God for your testimonly, LF, and all preachers out there, preparing fo Sunday. May the Holy Ghost fill us all.
Mom the Minister in AZ
Christ will vindicate! Not only you who've been mistreated and not only you who are pastors. Christ will vindicate his CHURCH UNIVERSAL! Jesus' resurrection is his vindication. Look what he had to go through to get there. I too pray the power of the Holy Spirit on all tempted ones, which is us all.
Plain Believer
To LF I think from the tone of your of your post you don't really intend to respond in kind to the "stinging" e-mail you received from the sole dissenting woman on your board. I know how discouraging and demoralizing these voices can be. However, I have found in my 12 yrs of (Ordained) ministry it ALWAYS pays to take the "high road." I am in my 8th yr at this appointment (UMC), the 1st woman and 2nd longest tenure in the 176 yrs of this church. The longest was 12yrs ('45-57). I am witnessing answers to my prayers way beyond what I even envisioned God could do. There is ALWAYS a remnant of people with God's vision waiting to be called forth. Do not despair. God is with you.
DSinNJ
Nancy-WI
Thank you. Your point is well made and well taken. That's precisely part of what I think this is all about.
Steve in NC
LF -
I realize you're talking about "being tempted," but on the off chance you were thinking about responding in this way, I offer this unsolicited advice.
speaking from the school of hard knocks, I urge you NOT to reply to antagonism with anything close to an equal part of antagonism! Yet, it also can't be ignored - this is not an area where it's the best for the body to allow it to gain a toehold. Speak first to whoever chairs your pastor-parish relations committee (or whatever it's called in your tradition) and say what is going on. Share the e-mail with him/her. He/she may have some real insight into how to handle the person. If he/she is a 'keep the peace' type person, you won't get much, but more than you will know what's going on.
DE-triangle. To send an e-mail back is to reinforce the triangle this parishioner has formed.
Books I've found helpful are "Never Call them Jerks" and "Generation to Generation" (Friedman talks about triangles in this book) and good ol' "Antagonists in the Church" by Haugk. "Clergy Killers" is also good, but I hate the title.
One of my best friends is in a church where the associate is on her first "call," and he's become friends with her (being on the call committee). She told him, "No one told me that such a big part of my job was P****ng off 25% of the people." As the senior legislative assistant for a senator, and one who deals with attacks such as these all the time, he said, "Hey, in my line of work 75% is a pretty good number!"
For what it's worth ...
Sally in GA
PH in OH - I love it!!! From an earthly fast to a miraculous feast.
Sally in GA
Coho - Thank you for your thoughtful and frank post. I've been there, too, with the "pride" factor. I struggled back in seminary with trying to distinguish "hubris" from "healthy self-esteem," and I have yet to resolve the issue! So, since I'm full of advice today, I'll just say, "don't be so hard on yourself!" I think the DESIRE and AWARENESS of the sin speaks volumes for itself.
Still ... I got a lot from your post; thank you. I'm not usually a three-point sermonizer, but I'm thinking this is a good way to go.
Sally in gA
And speaking of giving up stuff, for me the hardest to give up would be a TV show ... ironically titled "Survivor."
Sally
I 'd like to ask a question off topic if I may- I am working on a retreat and am looking for a top 10 lists of reasons to Study the Bible- I have 10 already but am curious as to what others would suggest-
Michele in PA
LF-
I can sympathize. I know so many others out there going through the same stuff. My classmates are all mostly still in their first calls and many have had to face similiar personas.
At a confernence the Bishop held last fall here- we talked about the fact that as Churches we often let people get away with stuff they couldn't get away with in other places.
But these people are a part of life. I really hate what they do to us and what they can do to the church- (I've seen them close churches)- and it is a struggle to remember that they too are children of God.
Sally-I thank you for sharing your friends comment that keeping 75% happy is doing a good job.
I think we all need to remember that.
MC
Sally, you are among others, "Survivor" is also my show. I love the Amazing race shows too.
Back to topic here.
The interpretors study Bible says:
Bread is symbolic of trusting God to supply his needs.
Jesus rejection of the devil's overtures come in recognition that the evil's sovereignty is not absoulte.
4:9-11 Last temptation moves Jesus out of the Desert to the Temple in Jersalem. "This one is the most subtle, since it involves not simply a lteral reading of the Scriptures of Israel, but and understaning of thos Scriptures rooted in a reality that is accessible in the Shcriptures but is prior to it namely, God's own prupose, God's own ways, As Son of God, Jesus know the ways of God an interprets the Scriptures in the light ofGod's will.
Three temptations that really say that God is in charge. That brings to my mind do we affirm with our will, that God is in charge? In all things in the desert and in the high places, we must trust God. Dabbling around here. Nancy-Wi
This might be a dumb question ... but why was Herod going to kill Jesus at this point in Luke? It seems all he's been doing is telling parables - nothing too outrageous yet.
Beginning to muse ... HSinON
This might be a dumb question ... but why was Herod going to kill Jesus at this point in Luke? It seems all he's been doing is telling parables - nothing too outrageous yet.
Beginning to muse ... HSinON
Sorry ... the fox question should be on the next week's gospel! *sigh* ... but if any of you decide to answer, that's okay with me ... :)
HSin ON
After being filled with the Holy Spirit at his baptism, Jesus is tempted by the devil and defines what it means to be called "the Son of God."
"I know a hot piece of real estate in Florida" or "I've got a bridge I could sell you." We are teased with this quip when we realize that we've been duped; when we've succumbed to temptation and have sold out to an empty promise. We sense these words lurking about the devil who, with a "deceptive hand and an outstretched arm," met Jesus in the wilderness and taunted him with the kingdoms of the world.
Clearly, Jesus' response indicates it is not the promise of real estate that can cause him to stumble; nonetheless, it may be the wisdom of the real estate agent that enlightens our reading of today's texts.
"Location! Location! Location!" is the motto of today's property peddler; what one has and where one has it not only defines our property value, but often our worth as human beings. People living in "high density districts" in Zimbabwe are accorded shorter--if any--newspaper obituaries when they die; in the eyes of society, where one has lived determines whether one's life and death is worthy of note.
Indeed, careful attention to prepositions--the "where" words--lifts up both the tension and release of today's lessons. If only we can position ourselves correctly, we will not be duped! We must go "through the wilderness" implies Luke. We must come "out of Egypt," and "into the land which the Lord our God has given" according to the Deuteronomist, in order to dwell, according to the psalmist, "in the shelter of the Most High" and abide "under the shadow of the Almighty."
However, in our quest to locate ourselves well, we must not forget that which first locates itself in us. Paul reminds us today, quoting Deuteronomy, the word is "near you, on your lips, in your heart." Despite our best efforts to position ourselves, it is here where the word of grace is found. "For one believes with the heart and so is justified, and one confesses with the mouth and so is saved."
Twila Schock and Bill Swanson
Friends,
Jennifer Ginn's commentary in the Feb 24,2004 issue of "Christian Century" magazine, (Pg 20) inspiried me to preach about how what Satan was asking Jesus in all the temptations was "Who are you?" Doesn't temptation always subtley ask this question of us? Jesus' reply grounded him in the jewish scripture and clearly articulated
Jesus' deep connection through obedience to God's redemptive plan for humankind. Jesus was part of an ongoing story and was firmly entrenched in
that story.
How do we become entrenched into this same story so that we encounter temptation out of who we are rather than what we believe, or can make ourselves believe?
So that's the direction I am going. I was thinking of using a couple clips from "The Last Temptation..."
Ginn's commentary is worth reading
Stan in Tacoma
Michele in PA
Ironically, your question was spot on target with today's text. Jesus used scripture as a way to confront temptation.
Another reason to study Scripture is to watch for the heart of God.
Also, scripture circulates inside your head/soul and works for our transformation even when we are not aware of it.
Ok, probably too esoteric eh? Sorry
Stan In Tacoma
Lf: It may be "too late" for the situation you find yourself in but I have found Gil Rendle's book, "Behavioural Covenants in Congregations" helpful, mark in Canada
I haven't homed in yet on the right approach for the church where I will be guest preacher. We want to rush through Lent and Good Friday to get to Easter, like eating our dessert first. Easter really isn't Easter without Lent and Good Friday. Also, I'm wrestling with how we pass our"tests"--we have discipline and free will to resist, yet the God's grace and strength clearly play a part in our ability to tell Satan to get behind us. That is a delicate balance I'd like to explore, just don't quite know how yet. Any thoughts?
Jesse in NC
I am usually a luker, but you are all tempting me into the discussion this week.
To LF with the stinging email. I agree with taking the high road, but the question is, what is the high road? Sometimes it is best to meet people in the light of day. What would happen if you printed out her email and put it on the agenda at next months cabinet. Ask with as much sincerity as you can muster if this new group she is forming will be reporting to the council or ask if they need any staff assistence. <just and idea anyway.
When I think about the temptation passage for Christ, I am reminded of Israels time in the wilderness. After their miraculous water crossing of the Red Sea they are tempted and stuck in the wilderness for 40 years. <moses goes up a mountain and gives them the new commandments for being God´s people.
<jesus has his own water miracle when the heavens are split at his baptism and the spirit descends. Then he is tempted and in the wilderness 40 days. Then he goes up a mount to give the newest version of the commandments.
There are too many similarities in these stories for me to ignore.
Be at peace,
The best is yet to be,
Ed in MN
Revgilmer,
Thanks, I love it! I had heard that the word "Lent" meant spring, but your deeper explanation of it is very useful. I completely agree that Lent is not about guilt, and I have (without really knowing the history you gave) sometimes added something to my spiritual discipline, while giving something else up. (I was unable to fast several years for health reasons, and instead I made a conscious effort to eat differently.) I will use your insights. They'll preach!
Peace and grace,
California Preachin' (on what is not enough of a winter's day! There is something wrong with trees and flowers blossoming in February, in my opinion. ...Northerner at heart, in case you haven't guessed)
Anybody know of an internet concordance that includes Eugene Peterson's The Message translation?
kbc in sc
Twila Schock and Bill Swanson
You have quoted Sundays in Seasons, are you the authors?
kbc in sc --
The Message is one of the available translations on crosswalk. com ... I don't have the exact link, but on their homepage, click on the tab that says "Bible Study" or something like that.
~squeeze
Linn, I think you are right on, that the real temptation is to prove who we are, that we are worthy, that we are somebody. "If you are the Son of God, do some God stuff." Is that not the real problem with dragging around guilt. Satan whispers, if you were really a servant, you would be able to conquer that pride, so look at you. You're a mess. You can't be a real Child of God. In reality God has already given us an identity and we don't have to keep proving it. GD
Steve in NC and Sally in GA,
Thanks for your kind words - I hope that my thinking on this text is not pushing the analogical interpretation school too much.
Coho, Midway City.
kbc in sc asked, “Anybody know of an internet concordance that includes Eugene Peterson's The Message translation?”
When I’m wanting to use Peterson’s “The Message” translation in sermons or Bible
Study lessons, I cut and paste it in from a website, looking up the chapter or specific verses needed. ALSO, this site also provides the specific scripture notations which are absent in the print form of “The Message”.
Shalom,
RJ in KS Flatlands
I have this guy who has been coming to my church for several months now. He is a disciple of Malcolm Smith. I know Smith is a charismatic and that he has been around for forty years. Anybody know more? This guy who has been attending my church keeps giving people Smith's teach tapes and sermons. I have found that he knows Malcolm, but if you ask him something Malcolm has not spoken about he is lost. This guy is being a thorn in my flesh. I would like to tell him to get the .... out. Any ideas? PH in OH
I have the privelege of preaching to the community this Sunday, including Baptists and Church of Christ. (5th Sunday, we worship together in this small community.) I would like to preach this scripture, but I am concerned! Any suggestions would be appreciated.
Texas Rangler.
The phrase going around and around in my head is "an opportune time." I need to do the Greek but it is making me think of a faction that left my small church last summer. There was nearly tangible evil in the air even though the conflict itself was not a big deal (or shouldn't have been).
I did think that in this situation Jesus is a model for how to handle attacks of this kind...he is non-anxious (remember that seminary phrase?), he answers simply, and he confronts the devil head-on.
for the person dealing with the email, I would add that I agree with showing the council the email as well as everyone you can find. People who are involved in things like that cannot handle openness and honesty, and that's how the faction in my case ended up leaving--everyone else was open and honest about it, letting there be no triangles or gossip.
Peace to all.
Beth in Georgia
I do not believe in a Satan or Devil or in demons.
They are completely foreign to me. But I do believe that evil exists, and that it is found in every attempt to cause harm (in any of its myriad of forms) that is formulated in the human heart.
We create evil every time we do anything that lessens the value of another. Those vile e-mails one of you has been receiving are pure evil and must be countered with good. Evil is always in the dark, secretive, furtive. Nobody does something evil and then crows about it in public. They don't want their name associated with it, and will point their fingers in any direction as long as it's not in their own direction.
From my own experience with this sort of thing, I would suggest you do go to your governing board in your local church as well at in your denomination and share everything. Point fingers at yourself where they need to be pointed. If you have failed in some way, you be the one to spell it out.
I did this when my neck was on the chopping block some years ago. I was called before the Personnel committee and told them everything. I told them what was a true accusation and what was false. I could not have been more honest with them than I was. I knew I was taking a huge risk. The upshot is that when the meeting was over, the Chairman of the Committee came up to me and said that he was so glad somebody had finally stepped up and accepted some responsibility for the mess we were in. With that, he told me that my honest was going to serve me well, and that my job there was secure. It was.
The troublemakers left - including the Sr. Minister who was behind it all - and peace was restored.
The truth should never be hidden away. Let it shine forth. It will be discovered one day anyway, so why not bring it into the light now? Forgiveness awaits those who confess. Understanding
abounds for those who have integrity, if not always good sense.
Peace to you.
Dear DPSers,
Thank you for your support and insight. Ed in MN: your tongue-in-cheek suggestion gave me the first good laugh I've had in weeks!! Sally: thank you for the advice. I've had to deal with a hard-core antagonist before - a person so deeply in the grip of evil that my staid congregation in a staid denomination actually debated invoking the discipline of the Church and removing said person from membership. Scott Peck's book "The People of the Lie" was an invaluable resource to me at that time, still is.
Back on topic: this is from Henri Nouwen's "In the Name of Jesus". "Jesus' first temptation was to be relevant: to turn stones into bread. Oh, how often have I wished I could do that! Walking through the 'young towns' on the outskirts of Lima, Peru, where children die from malnutrition and contaminated water, I would not have been able to reject the magical gift of making the dusty stone-covered streets into places where people could pick up any of the thousands of rocks and discover that they were croissants, coffee cakes, or fresh-baked buns, and where they could fill their cupped hands with stale water from the cisterns and joyfully realize that what they were drinking was delicious milk.
"Aren't we priests and ministers called to help people, to feed the hungry, and to save those who are starving? Are we not called to do something that makes people realize that we do make a difference in their lives? Jesus was faced with these same questions, but when he was asked to prove his power as the Son of God by the 'relevant' behaviour of changing stones into bread, he clung to his mission to proclaim the Word and said, 'Human beings live not by bread alone, but by every word that comes from the mouth of God.'" Nouwen goes on to discuss Christian leaders' temptation to be 'relevant' or productive according to worldly understandings of what that means.
Nouwen's small book expands on each of the temptations: the temptation to be an individualistic superstar, walking the tightrope alone; the temptation to control rather than to love. It's a great little book.
Thanks again.
LF
LF - wow.
You've given me yet another new insight. I'd always thought about the changing the stones into bread as for Jesus' (and, by implication, our) own hunger. How much more difficult it would be to view others' suffering and say, "One does not live by bread alone."
He fed 4,000/5,000 (according to which Gospel you read) with a few fishes and loaves. Because they were hungry and because he trusted God's providence.
Yet, we've been in situations where we see others suffering and are helpless to do anything about it. Because Jesus fasted and was tempted we can encourage others (or go through it ourselves) in their darkest hours. To be able, like Jesus, to sit in Kairos. We can say - no longer glibly - "one does not live by bread alone" - and trust God's providence in all situations.
Esoteric is a word a few have used this week, in reference to their posts, and I guess you'll have to count me in, too! But this is hard to articulate. It's quite apart from "Jesus did it and so can we," or "Jesus setting the example of trust in God," it's the words of the song that comes to my mind, "Because he lives, I can face tomorrow."
It's about what we do when there's nothing TO do. And that is simply know that regardless, earth has no hold on any of us. Cancer has no eternal hold. Poverty has no eternal hold. Because we do not live by physical health alone, or bread (or enough to eat) alone, or power & influence alone ...
How do I articulate this???
Sally in GA
It's about what we believe when what we DO do is a pitiful drop in the bucket of the larger problem. It's about our faith when our work seems to be for naught.
Sally
PaideiaSCO in north GA mts,
A friendly suggestion: Use "lay-speak" instead of "ivory tower theologian-speak" w/ your listeners in the congregation, please! I'm a pastor and I don't understand 1/2 of those 8 ideas you posted. Maybe it's just me.....
Heidi in MN
This is off track my friends, but I just want you to share in my joy. I am UMC and this week meet with the Board of Ordained Ministry and recieved their affirmation to be ordained elder this coming June. This is the end of my eight year journey to ordination! Nancy-Wi
Thank you Coho, for your quote on the Passion of Christ. It gives me some help in trying help people see beyond the sanitized sweetly smiling Jesus who doesn't even break a sweat when he meets up with the tempter.
I'm always amazed at what I have missed in familiar pieces of scripture. I had always assumed Jesus was in the wilderness for 40 days and then along comes the devil to tempt him. No - the scripture says he was tempted for 40 days! I realize that 40 may not mean 40 but it does mean a long time. The part about the devil leaving him and waiting for a more oppotune time is haunting. The quote from the news anchor speaks well to this.
Thanks to all.
Blessings LGB
as a very concervative southern baptist who determined that we should have a weekly liturgical servce as an option of three morning worship services,and observe the ecclestical calendar, I officiated at my very first ever Ash Wednesday Service last night. Fear over the response of the people and fear over how I would conduct the service premiated the day and the first part of the service. I was amazed to walk into a chapel fairly filled with folks, some who are from our liturgical service, but the majority from the other two worship service. After the prayers and reading and the explanation of the Psalm 51 passage I offered the opprotunity to come forward to receive the symbol of the service. I held my breath. The aisles filled with people coming forward. By the time I was about finished, I was fighting back tears from the simplicity of the attitudes of our people. I have finally decided to give up the security of fear for the tempestuousness of joy for lent. I never cease to be amazed how wonderful the Father is and how overcoming temptations especially for me of fear, unacceptance and failure always are best met with His Word. Thanks for being such an encouragement to me. --a tulsa liturgical baptist
LF,
Getting back to that woman sending you the email. I am sure you will get many pastors in here tell you to go easy on her, or that by laying into her you are giving into temptation. I disagree with this kind of leadership approach. We, as pastors, must always remember that we are called to serve the church and carry out its mission in that particular community. If this woman is threatening the mission of the ministry you have been called to lead she needs to be dealt with. I see people like her as being a handy man (or woman in this matter) of the devil. To me, the real temptation is to be spineless, sit back and let her lead you. Let's be honest for a minute, most pastors are afraid of conflict and look for excuses as to why they should be 'loving' to everyone. Don't listen to that nonsense. Remember how Jesus ministered. Yes, he loved people, was compassionate, and caring. But when Satan tried to get in the way, he also used the tough love approach and turned the temple upside down to make his point. Don't let this woman (who sounds like the devil has a hold of her) have her way. Use tough love. I have found it works. Our ministry has increased by 100% in one year after we removed the cancer from the Body of Christ. Trust me on this one.
Rex from Tex
I hope this doesn't ruin the movie for anyone, but at the end of the Passion Jesus dies.
Missy (in conformaton class)
Ok so I am totally twisted but I keep seeing in my head the sketch Monty Python did with the rather large gent who keeps stuffing himself until he explodes. The problem with giving in to temptation is that we will continue giving in until we explode, or implode. Jesus knows that all to well.
Congrats to Nancy in WI, now comes the really fun and scary part. Being an elder!
Padresac (another UM) in MS
Why do the Catholic put that spot of ash on there foreheads during the ash Wed communion
Greetings,
I too, like tulsa liturgical baptist was deeply moved by our Ash Wednesday Service. I come from a liturgical church and I am in my second year as a Pastor, so Ash Wednesday meant new things for me this year. The new depth of Ash Wednesday was because of those who were not there. Those men and women on whom I had imposed ashes on last year who have departed in faith. I not only got choked up while imposing ashes on young children, but also on two widows who I conducted services for their husbands this last year. Those words, "You are dust and to dust you shall return." Hit so very hard.
Something that has always struck me is that Jesus is not the only one who quotes scripture in our passage for Sunday. The devil begins with Jesus' physical need about bread and Jesus reacts by citing Deut. 8.3. The the devil tempts Jesus with power and authority, to rule the world (on a side bar I can just hear the devil telling Jesus, "Just think of how much good you could do Jesus - how your love could destroy the pain, suffering and haterd that Rome inflicts on everyone) and to this temptation Jesus quotes Deut. 6.13. But then it's like the devil tries to trick Jesus by using God's own words (something the old trickster did and does quite well, remember that first theological question in the garden "did God say...") for the devil uses Ps. 91 to tempt Jesus to jump. Then something wonderful happens, Jesus using the Word of God claims his Lordship. In the synoptics Jesus is always so cryptic about coming right out an declaring that he is God, (that's our job) but with the words to Duet. 6.16 Jesus says, "Do not put the Lord your God to the test." Here Jesus declares his identity as "the Lord your God" and with that the devil leaves...until an opportune time.
This text has a lot to say about temptation, but has alot more to proclaim about who Jesus is.
Grace and Peace,
Badlands Paul
With the posts about Ash Wednesday services, I have to share what happened at ours and hope it will give folks a smile. When I invited folks to come forward to receive the ashes, there was the usual awkward pause with no one wanting to be the first. A nine year old girl who was visiting and sitting in the front pew said, "Well, I don't mind if I do," and came forward. The rest of the folks followed! ( = I'm sure there must be something theological in that, but I'm not sure what! Blessings LGB
To Missy in the Confirmation Class
First, learn how to spell "confirmation."
Second, apparently you didn't stay til the end of The Passion of Christ, because surprise - Jesus rises from the dead!
To my colleagues in ministry - The Passion is well worth seeing. A great emotional strain. If children are going, then only with the parents seeing the film first. I have never seen anything to graphic in my life. It really made me think how much Jesus loves us that he went through such a horrible thing. PH in OH
An anonymous poster asked why Catholics put a spot of ashes on their forehead...
That's actually a mark in the shape of a cross and, as it is placed there, the priest, quoting scripture, says: "Remember that you are dust, and to dust you will return."
We Catholics who more often call ourselves Episcopalians engage in the same practice as the Roman Catholics. A couple of years ago I preached a sermon the why's and wherefore's of the cross-mark of ashes ... it was entitled "Wiping Away the I" and you can find it at http://thefunstons.com/sermons/a021302.html
Blessings, Eric in OH
I will will preaching from the Romans text this week, but can never resist seeing what's going on in the Gospel discussion. The comments around Ash Wednesday services prompt me to post here today. The Imposition of Ashes is a service that is only 5-6 years old in the UM congregation that I now servce. I as told that there are never more than about a dozen who show up for it. So I was thought that perhaps there would be even fewer in attendance last evening because many people in the congregation -- and from the whole community -- had been present earlier in the day to celebrate the Service of Death & Resurrection of a 43-year-old woman who was a vital part of our congregation, a much loved teacher in the local school system, active in various community activities -- and, not least of all, beloved wife and the mother of 2 kids, aged 16 & 8 -- who died quite suddenly in the early hours of Sunday morning. We had crammed nearly 500 mourners into our little church (thanks to the vision of the building planners we have a closed circuit TV link in Fellowship Hall) where the sanctuary normally seats around 180. After all the emotional drain of the day, I thought perhaps many would not want to come spend another 45 minutes in church. When I walked into the sanctuary at the appointed time, there were nearly 30 worshipers gathered to pray, hear the Word, and receive the sign of penitence on their foreheads. Given our very real awareness of death in our midst, there were several folks with tears in their eyes as I marked the sign of the cross on their foreheads and reminded them that "you are dust and to dust you will return." After the emotional drain I had experienced from 6:00 Sunday morning until I returned to the church from the cemetery yesterday afternoon, the presence of twice as many as usual at the Ash Wednesday service was a real gift to me! I only hope the service was a gift for those who attended, too!
Nancy, congratulations. I've still got two years to go before I can look forward to the goal of ordination!
Robbie in KS
Lent does not promise us temptation, it promises us salvation. "Everyone who cries out, 'God help me,' gets help." (The Message) All four lections address what it means to call on God, from Israel's escape from bondage in Egypt and their deliverance to the Promised Land, to Jesus and his deliverance in the wilderness. Both the psalm and the reading from Romans says "Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved." My goodness, what a God!
I used to spend so much time trying to explain the nature of the three temptations to the congregation. It's really one temptation: selfishness vs God-centeredness. We share in Jesus' temptation...to leave God and serve one's self. It usually is a subtle process. First we bend one commandment, then another, and before we know it we've forgotten them altogether. Help!
NG
To PH in OH,
You said, that you thought the Passion of Christ was a "great emotional strain." ??? I think it is tragic that the main message in the movie is that the "Sanhedrin" were the ones responsible for the unrelenting physical cruelity to Jesus. For Lent, I have promised not to see the movie for it's use and abuse of Christ as a money making extravaganza. I even heard that one of the Nascar racing cars had the "Passion" on its hood as a means of advertising. I don't think seeing a two hour blood bath is healthy for children and especially those who might come away from the film with the idea that "Jews" killed Jesus. We, who study and have gone to seminary know that it was the Roman government that killed Jesus. It frightens me that we might resurrect the hatred of the Jews by encouraging our congregations to see the movie. Gibson's father doesn't even believe that the Holocaust was a reality. My decision to yield not to the temptation of seeing Jesus brutally murdered on a movie screen with dolby digitalized graphic effects, became a decision to instead send my money that I would have spent on the movie and popcorn to the Jewish Antidefamation League. Frankly, Mel Gibson scares me. BB in IL
Nancy-Wi,
I just want to shout "Praise God!" Congratulations on a long journey towards ordination. My God Bless you in the journey from here.
Angelic Residue, OR
BB in IL
Let me take the pressure off of the seminary graduates.
I killed Jesus, I tend to place the nails at some point every day. May God forgive me and let the Jews and Romans off the hook
Tbowen in GA
LGB - "and a little child shall lead them."
Sally
Nancy - AWESOME!!!!!
Sally
Rex from Tex:
Forgive me, brother ... but do you realize your post just declared a winning argument over "all those pastors who'd say to be loving" - when no pastor on the DPS has posted anything like that?
Sally in GA
I've been responding one at a time, so I apologize for hte multiple posts ...
for the DPSer who implied that Mel Gibson should be held responsible for the attitude of his father (in not believing the holocaust happened) - my own father believed some pretty strange things, too. I'd hate to think I was judged by his beliefs! Though, I haven't decided whether or not to see the film until I can figure out WHY I should see it, Mel Gibson's father won't factor into the decision.
Next - Ash Wednesday - one poster talked about being moved by imposing ashes on women whose husbands s/he'd buried. I had the same feeling with a woman whose mother I buried - and more touching for me was that I made the ashes a little differently this year.
Usually I have store-bought palm ashes. This year, I took Joel more literally and wrote on a piece of paper something like, "I weep for the sins of this congregation and pray that you would lead me in leading them..." there was more, but you get the idea. THen I burned them and made the ashes fromt hem. When I mixed them with water, I put a little too much in and they were too wet. They also didn't mix the same. The crosses on the foreheads barely (if at all) showed.
--- ok, the day is over with and it's Friday (I missed yesterday b/c of a snow day and the kids were home)
I'm thinking along the lines of "what to do when there's nothing to do." The temptations I'm most guilty of (and which I assess my "turn-around" congregation to be inclined towards) is a sort of "either-or" thinking. In this case it's about deciding "either" we're helpless victims of some big, bad North Georgia Conference or the changed neighborhood or our own (very real) infirmities and moaning and groaning while expecting someone to come rescue us (akin to he will command his angels ... to bear you up)... "or" what I'm more inclined to do and that is take the matter into my own hands and do everything I can, in essence, trying to be the savior they want.
What we all need to remember is that there already IS a savior.
----
Next - some time a few years ago, I found a website about advice on how to do a 40-day fast. Whew! It comes to mind now not just because of the Scripture but because of the talk about "The Passion of the Christ" movie. I must wonder whether seeing the film will really deepen my faith or just shock me. I'd wonder if the 40-day fast would deepen anyone's faith or is reserved for works-righteousness.
And one last thing --- no one's yet mentioned whether seeing the movie will turn into some sort of litmus test of our devotion. If we REALLY loved Jesus, we'd see him brutally, bloodlustfully abused. It seems have been headed in that direction around here.
Sally in GA
Sermon for Sunday?
"The Last Temptation of Mel Gibson".
Gibson made this provocative movie
with his own money [$25 million]. On
the first day of its release, the
film made $27 million. In Hollywood
terms, he about broke even on opening
day.
Gibson shopped his presentation to
evangelical Christians, traditional
Catholics, and Orthodox Jews.
On Jay Leno on Thursday, [February 26],
he talked about how ruthless Hollywood
can be. There was no comparison to the
Roman occupying forces in Judea during
the first Holy Week.
Perhaps the last temptation for Mel was
to hype. This is deception, to be sure.
I am still searching for a leprechaun in
the bushes: a pot o' gold for the saints
who face daily temptations and can't run
them by evangelical Christians, traditional
Catholics and Orthodox Jews for positive
reviews.
Yield not to temptation!
Oklahoma Irishman
Sally writes about wondering if the bloodthirsty, brutal treatment of Jesus is just for shock purposes or to deepen faith. I am in her corner on this. There is a real challenge going on in the Christian community as to whether we love Jesus enough to see with our eyes what happened to him. When I counter that I have read the Gospels and have a very clear idea of what happened to him and don't need to see it in techicolor to believe why it happened, I am told I am weak in the faith. My faith is based not only on the last 12 hours of Jesus' life, but on the entire 3 years of his ministry. His words, his acts of healing and demonstrations of inclusiveness are as vital to what I proclaim about Jesus as his torture and death. Yes, I am aware I am not saved by his words or by his healing the leper, so don't throw that at me, please. But Jesus is more than his death, and if I want people to understand my Lord Jesus, they need the whole picture, not just those last 12 hours. I think the whole idea of Mel Gibson's movie (which I have not seen, nor will I be seeing) is geared more for the people who already know the first part of his life. As far as I know, it is church-goers that have filled the seats and who have purchased blocks of tickets for their own members. My own church group that is going has decided to not invite anyone else along.
The Word of God is free. Why is evangelism costing people money, anyway. This Outreach group that keeps sending me stuff wants about 1300 dollars to promote this movie in my neighborhood. If they really wanted to show what Jesus is about, they would give away seats in theaters.
The intent of this movie that has been promoted has started to fade into dollar signs and contests of who loves Jesus more. I'm not impressed.
The proof is in the pudding, however. If there is a marked improvement in how we treat each other (including those we just can't agree with) after this movie has its run, then I will publicly apologize for all my negativity about this movie.
Nancy-Wi --
Congratulations!!!
May your ministry continue to be blessed.
-- Carrie+ in NY
Coho, Midway City
Two things I keep in mind to help me with my perspective on preaching:
From Fred Craddock: (from memory)
When I was young, I wanted to be a great preacher. When I got a little older, I wanted to be a good preacher. Now that I am older, I want to be a good Christian.
I have no idea where this one is from:
People will forget what you said.
People will forget what you did.
People will not forget how you made them feel.
These help me all the time. I hope they'll help you too.
Blessings,
Carrie+ in NY
Carrie+ in NY:
Thank you so much for your pointer. I am struggled a lot with what you pointed out. Yes, there is a disconnect between the role of what we do vs. who we really are. Preaching is something we do; Christian-living is something we were supposed to be. The past few days I was broken into pieces with the failures in my Christian walk. And yet, this Sunday I will preach on the pulpit again, realizing that I could even fool people as a good preacher, without being a good Christian. God have mercy!
Sally, GA:
I am not sure if your take on Henri Nouwen (How much more difficult it would be to view others' suffering and say, "One does not live by bread alone") would be what he intended. I think the point he was making there were the temptation of being practical, rather than dealing with suffering. Besides, the first temptation was a personal matter between Jesus and the Devil, and not relating to anyone else.
Coho, Midway City
Just some final Friday Thoughts
LF -in addition to the books already suggested, let me add a newer one "Crazy Makers" by Paul Meier
To those of you who have been saying that the temptations are about who jesus is or who we are- aren't they more about whose we are
My Sermon for this Sunday is called "What ARe You FUll Of?" Seems to me that Jesus was there by the agency of the Holy Spirit (we are in Luke, remember) and had just been baptized and the Holy Spirit had descended on him- so he is filled with the Holy Spirit. But he is also filled with a deep-seated knowledge of Scripture. For us, one is a gift .oh, alright, they're both gifts, but knowledge of Scripture takes work. What I wnat to say is that yes, we have recieved this gift, but we are responsible in part for our growth (ISn't that justification and sanctification?)
and to those who pointed out that Jesus was tempted for a full forty days -thanks, I can identify more with that than with a "poof! you're tempted" to "poof! you win for now" reading of the text
revgilmer in Texarkana
p.s. to California preaching- we had six inches of snow a week ago Saturday- the biggest, prettiest flakes I have ever seen- but it was just about gone the next day
I can't make up my mind either about the Mel Gibson movie. I certainly do not buy into BB in Il 's condemnation.
The part that I will take from the movie on Sunday is the question that a member who saw the film asked me.. "Is that woman who was in the garden with Jesus and shows up so often in the movie in the Bible." I will explain that this is the movie's way of portraying Satan, not in a red suit with horns, but as a strange and seductive woman who not only followed Jesus into the Garden but who showed up all along his life to try to get him to sell out his mission in life to the easy way out.
BB let me add some observations of my own that you and the Anti Defamation League will use no doubt to label me Anti Semitic.
While the Holocaust did happen and was horrible it is not the only attempt at genocide in the history of the world including some bad American's massacre of Native Americans. When I visited Israel some years ago, I noted how similar the treatment of Palestinians was/is to that of the black Americans who I grew up with the Mississippi in the 50's. Exploit their cheap labor and send them to the Negro quarter at night. Separate but unequal schools. I do not approve of an Anti defamation organization that defames and gives money to oppose any American politician who dares question any reluctance to support whatever the state of Israel wants to do I will explain that this is the movie's way of portraying Satan, not in a red suit with horns, but as a strange and seductive woman who not only followed Jesus into the Garden but who showed up all along his life to try to get him to sell out his mission in life to the easy way out.
BB let me add some observations of my own that you and the Anti Defamation League will use no doubt to label me Anti Semitic.
While the Holocaust did happen and was horrible it is not the only attempt at genocide in the history of the world including some bad American's massacre of Native Americans. When I visited Israel some years ago, I noted how similar the treatment of Palestinians was/is to that of the black Americans who I grew up with the Mississippi in the 50's. Exploit their cheap labor and send them to the Negro quarter at night. Separate but unequal schools. I do not approve of an Anti defamation organization that defames and gives money to oppose any American politician who dares question any reluctance to support whatever the state of Israel wants to do.
I wonder if some of the critical Rabbi’s are not more afraid of the members of their congregation being impressed by the movie than being oppressed.
As to who killed Jesus there is one answer that I have not heard anyone consider. Jesus killed Jesus.
John 10:17-18
17 Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again.
18 No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.
(KJV)
I too have some trouble with Mel Gibson, but I don’t think this was purely money motivated. I have trouble with all religious leaders that make so much money off of music, seminars, movies and books. But I believe that fewer people would attend the movie if all the tickets were free.
Sorry about the long post, but I just wondered if anyone else had some of my feelings or can help me with my errors of judgment.
jrbnrnc
Some of these questions have been answered...
Here were my "opening questions for this text"...
1. This experience happened shortly after Jesus?s baptism, why would "the Spiri" lead him into the wilderness?
2. At his baptism he was sure he was the son of God? Did this event change Jesus understanding of his Messiahship?
3. Would it be O.K. if Jesus had doubts and fears? Would that not make him more human?
4. Why does Jesus quote scripture to the devil? What is his purpose in doing that?
5. Do you ever have doubts about your faith? Who or what do you turn to?
further food for thought?
I too witnessed the "Passion Movie"....
I was disapointed, there was so much sadistic behavior by the Roman guards... the power of the passion got lost there somewhere... I'd say, "The book is better!"... to show only a brief resurrection story seemed very anti-climactic... why have it if you're not going to spend some time there... unless Mel is looking forward to the "sequel"...? I was moved to tears once, when "young Jesus had fallen" and Mother Mary rushed to his side... those of us who are parents... have done that again and again as our children have taken some bumps and bruises along the way. However, this movie will not make a Christian out of ANYone, believer or non... it won't make you a better Christian... Jesus message was one of LOVE, but it got lost in the gore of this film. The GOOD NEWS was overshadowed by demons who got more airtime than Jesus's love... I'd give it a 2 star, maybe 3...
No, going to see this movie won't make you a "better" Christian... any more than sleeping in your garage will make you a CAR!
Struggling in the wilderness,
Pulpitt in ND
Good stuff! Thanks for the thoughtful contributions. To me, "giving up" for Lent is done to remind ourselves of the extraordinariness of the
ordinary things we usually take for granted. When I give up a food item for six weeks, say, then when I allow myself to eat it again, I will have a new appreciation for it -- the kind of appreciation/gratitude we should have for all of life's blessings. CE in CO
I'm going to add my two cents. I am a Christian feminist, I went to TWO liberal United Methodist seminaries, and I love Jesus. I have listened to all the bashing of the Passion film, and was anxious to join in. How could Mel Gibson produce anything with any depth or theological understanding? I went to see it yesterday with a healthy skepticism, and I was BLOWN AWAY. I kept trying to find something wrong with it. It is not anti-Semitic, anymore than the Gospels themselves are anti-Semitic. Anyone can take the Gospel of John and say it's anti-Semitic. The Pharisees looked bad in the film. To me they represented the institutional Church that resists the radical message of the Gospel at the cost of lives, is often thirsty for blood in the name of the church, and in all its righteous indignation, whether the voice be liberal or conservative, thinks it has the truth and not even Jesus can tell us different! I am included. It was a powerfully moving film. The symbolism was powerful, the portrayal of Jesus was powerful, the image of Mary his mother was wonderful-- she was portrayed as one of the strongest of them all, even as her heart was breaking. Yes, it's bloody and brutal at times. My suspicion is that the Crucifixion was bloody and brutal and VERY DIFFICULT to watch. I'm not a Mel Gibson fan, but yesterday, I wanted to shake the man's hand and thank him for giving such a powerful message. It's not a project to be picked apart, but to be experienced. Just my humble opinion. And please!!! don't knock something that you haven't seen, people. PM in PA
Hi all.
Wow! Thanks for all the thoughts/reflections. Much good stuff to chew on. If I might offer a couple responses...
To PaideiaSCO - Personally, I've never put a whole lot of stock in #2, recapitulation. Guess I don't like the "This time someone will get it right" which seems implicit (if not explicit!) in such an approach. Strikes this Lutheran as too much emphasis on the "doing" of Jesus as opposed to the "being" of Jesus.
Which leads me to #s 5-8. It sounds like you are quoting someone by saying "becoming a self before God." Got a source? My initial response would be to reverse that: that in the Jesus story we see God becoming a self before US (but that might be to anthro-centric, unless the "becoming" is understood as gift...). Where have your thoughts taken you as Sunday approaches?
Next - Coho in Midway City observed that Jesus was was driven by the Spirit into the wilderness. LOVED your second observation, that the Spirit might be putting us in the temptation's way, NOT to teach us to rely on the Spirit to "overcome" (i.e. not give in to) the temptation, but to trust that the temptation AND THE SIN THAT RESULTS has already been overcome! THAT is Good News!
Which points beyond your own weakness (and mine!). Your pride will NOT destroy you some day. Remember Romans 8, nothing in all creation will separate us from the love of God in Jesus. Not even ourselves!
Good thing!
Now, an observation from myself. Anybody notice in the third temptation, Jesus refuses to get into a "proof-texting" debate? The devil, when quoting the psalm, leave a portion of a verse out. Most of us (who have engaged in proof-texting at one time or another) would probably jump on those left-out words, and argue about whether every word was divinely inspired, or the correct interpretation of various verses, or some other non-essential point, with the REAL purpose of trying to figure out who's "right" (Me, of course!), and who's "wrong" (whoever disagrees with me, of course!).
Jesus doesn't go there. He returns to the real point of scripture, the real point of God's mission, the real point of service. "I'm not going to tempt God, so don't you, either!"
Hope this is helpful. A blessed Lent to you all!
Rick in Canada, eh?
Identity theft is becoming a big issues these days.
There are people who do not mind stealing and using your identity, even to the point of bankrupting you.Luke 4:1-13 may be considered a story of attempted identity theft. Satan wants to steal the heart of Jesus. But, as the Interpreter's Bible points out, Jesus is shown to be the model Jew. he is faithful to Shema. He loves God with all his mind, heart, and strength. Life is a spiritual testing ground, and their is a battle for the human heart, the human core, the human identity. RH in Alabam
PM in PA
Thanks
I have not seen the movie yet. I was planning to go with a group from my two churches then we will join several other congregations at a Church near the theater for a discussion.
In the past 24 hours several of the other pastors made a preview viewing and have called to say I should go in advance. Good advice, I will go tomorrow with another pastor friend.
I believe it very much right for anyone to say they do not wish to go. It is when they use the media and other sources that set their agenda to set up your personal soap box.
I have a pastor friend that was shouting from the pulpit that Harry Potter books and movies were from Satan. She never saw one, never read the books. I finally convinced her to scan one. She found that she was mis-quoting the theme and was wrong in what was said and done. She decided that she still was against the theme and products, but she stopped sounding like an uneducated hate monger. She was able to explain what the factual basis of her conviction is.
Shooting from the hip, you can loose a toe of credibility.
Tbowen in GA
Coho - when did I ever mention Henri Nouwen?
I was going off on my own thoughts, actually...
Sally
Dear DSPers, I just believe that the message of Jesus was on of bringing peace on earth, love of neighbor and enemies, and the courage to stand up to dominate and oppressive institutions. He reached out to those who were marginalized by society and he did not encourage the use of violence. I do not judge Gibson by his father's attitude, as Sally of GA suggested, I do hold him responsible for bringing the message of his father forward and re-fueling the fires of anti-semitism attempting to remove the advances 1900 years of work toward reconciliation of Judaism and Christianity. It is Jesus' life that deepens my faith. We have enough violence in the world without adding to it with a Hollywood version of the Gospel according to Mel. Peace and Love of Christ to you and to your congregations, still BB in IL. PS. hearing that the devil is portrayed as a woman in red I can't believe that that sinister effect would go unnoticed by the Feminist organizations. How very sad.
Badlands Paul - YES!!! THat's what I've been trying to say. The devil's "temptation" is more subtle when it appears to be for the good of the suffering. And perhaps the most seductive temptation of all is that of thinking we have the ability to put suffering away. There's a difference between doing the will of the Savior and giving others drinks of water in his name, than trying to BE the savior and thinking it's up to us to perform miracles.
I know I harp on "turn-around" a lot (it's where I live day in and day out), but I think truly dead and dying ANYthing has lost its link to its source of refreshment and nourishment. It's hard not for me to think I need to go in and "save" a congregation. There's also a difference between performing miracles and pulling a rabbit out of a hat. Ta Daaaaa!
A true connection to nourishment (not by bread alone metaphor) will not be us, or even our ministry (though folks seem to expect it, and we seem to expect to be able to deliver it) - but by the true confession of sins and laying down whatever keeps us from seeing grace.
God forgive me when I say, "I lay down this sin, God -- but I intend to keep this one and that one."
Sally (sure am chatty this week)
One more thing -- sorry!!!
We're doing something called "Leap of Faith" Sunday. It's not a big, big to-do, but I'd like to take the naturally-falling leap day into account. I intend to fill up our church-logo helium balloons and have people write their prayers on it (maybe writing their temptations?) and release them at the end of worship.
How else can I demonstrate a Leap of Faith on this leap Sunday? Bear in mind literally leaping is physically impossible for our old folks (90% of our congregation), and if someone else leaped, it would scandalize them. Any ideas?
Sally
BB in IL and others,
I saw "The Passion." It was offered here locally for a clergy preview, before it opened to the general public. Thank-you, Cinema 5.
I knew the story. I knew that the group of temple rulers were Jews, but the movie does not say that. If I had not known that there was no Christian church per se at the time, I would have thought them to be priests of the church. It is only the interpretations that others will put on the movie from the outside that will be anti-Semitic, and no movie-maker can control what others will do with the finished product.
The "woman in the garden" was intended to be sexless, I understand. The voice is deeper than most female voices can reach. The character is hairless, right down to the eyebrows. I was also not sure what to do with the evil baby scene, but maybe it was a taunt, that the devil believed victory was in sight, and soon even the children would be lost to the devil's victory.
The crucifixion was depicted brutally, but crucifixion is brutal. What bothered me is that it seemed that the Roman Guards were more brutal to Jesus than to the others crucified with him. I thought they should have been equally brutal to all of them.
I did notice that the picture was not as Biblical as I had expected. The aditional Roman Catholic tradition shows, and if you plan to see the movie and are not familiar with the stations of the cross, you may want to review them before you go.
(The crow was a bit over-the-top, I'd say.)
I will neither dismiss or recommend the movie, but, please, see it before you judge it. If it's purpose was to depict the brutality of crucifixion, it succeeded. I cried. If I see it again, I'll cry again, because I know Jesus really died. I know it was a brutal death, and I feel the emotion of those who suffered while watching him die.
Michelle
Michelle,
I know Jesus died, I've known that and cried about that. I've meditated on his Mother's grief and Mary, his Beloved's grief and I've cried over that too. I don't need Mel Gibson's graphic display and banalization or trivialization of the death of Jesus, which is a holy event to me. Anyway, I am saddened by the whole thing. In the Hebrew tradition, the name of G-d, YHWH, was not speakable as it would be blasphemous to attempt to label God. Now we have God and the death of Jesus on top of Nascar race cars. Isn't there something capitalistic and demeaning about that? Bumper sticker theology, and now Hollywood theology...what next? Obviously I'm caught in a mood about all of this, will go and meditate on the temptation of Jesus in the wilderness before he made it to cinemas. Pax, BB in IL
BB in IL,
I agree that the commercialization is not only unfortunate, it is wrong. I wonder if all the proceeds will go to spread the gospel? (Not much gospel in the movie.)
Michelle
I do not recommend the Mel Gibson Gospel to anyone.
It leaves out the entire ministry of Jesus. It does not set the stage for what was going on there in Jerusalem that day. It adds things that are not in the Bible, which gives the director full opportunity to put his own spin on things.
If I were a nonbeliever and saw this movie, I would think Christians were off their rockers for thinking this kind of brutality was not only OK but laudable. I would want no part of a religion that
finds its core in flesh being ripped off somebody's back and spikes driven into his feet for and then arguing about who was responsible. I wouldn't stick around long enough to have it explained to me.
I'd go find something else to believe in. This is
not the kind of evangelism I'm looking for to bring people to the faith.
I am a believer, and I know why it happened. I think we have to ease into it a little with the unchurched out there.
About the helium balloon idea for Leap of Faith Sunday...
keep in mind that helium balloons released into the sky are very environmentally damaging! they can land in the sea, be eaten by turtles and seals etc, very bad. I recommend blowing up regular balloons and letting them go inside the church! they fly all around, making lots of excitement and noise, and everyone gets the idea!
His head leaned back as he heard my voice approaching. When I came into view I watched his eyes focus and sparkle as he looked intently at me, maybe with recognition, perhaps with wonder as he experiences something new.
He’s a beautiful baby, this grandchild, four months old, sparkling eyes, red hair, a smile that could melt stone, full of life and potential as he begins his journey on earth.
I reached down as he lay in his daddy’s arms looking up at me and put my hand on his forehead. “Remember that you are dust and to dust you will return,” and with the imposition of ashes on his head I was jolted by the realization of his mortality and felt grief welling within me.
The rest of the service as I looked at the faces of all gathered, I was acutely aware everyone’s mortality. “Remember you are dust and to dust, you will return.”
At numerous funerals, I’ve been the voice of the family and community gathered in grief speaking those most solemn lines at the end of the rite: we commit their body to the ground; earth to earth, ashes to ashes, dust to dust.”
Those words fall to our ears as we sit in silence, emptiness, even disbelief at what we witness. But witness we do, knowing that none of us or those we love will escape that moment.
We do witness and acknowledge death, yet in the midst of death and in the face of death, we witness and proclaim life.
“Remember that you are dust and to dust you will return,” I said over my grandchild. With the ashes, I made the mark of the cross on his forehead and on your forehead. It’s a death defying act to wear the sign and mark of death in a way that boldly proclaims life.
There’s been too much discussion about who killed Jesus. All controversy is pretense that avoids the real question, “who should be on the cross?” The answer is each and every one of us. Jesus of Nazareth took our cross and gave us his life.
Lent calls us to our mortality. Lent calls us to Christ’s life. “We proclaim Christ crucified.” We acknowledge death, but we defy death in the Resurrected life that we are called to live here and now. No other people, community or organization can do this. Only the Church has this to take to the world. And that is through you.
Pr. del in Ia
Please allow me to introduce myself - I've been a lurker for awhile, and I have really found some inspiration and thought-provoking material here. I am in my second year of ordained ministry, in a once-large, now small church. God be praised, we actually had a net gain of 3 members this past year, so perhaps the tide is turning!
Oklahoma Irishman, I love that sermon title! If you don't mind, I'd like to quote it at the beginning of my sermon on Sunday. I thought I'd open by reminding the congregation about that other movie about Jesus that stirred up a lot of controversy, "The Last Temptation of Christ," and move from there into a discussion of Jesus' humanity and our own temptations, large and small (or is there such a thing as a small temptation?).
Sally in GA, I agree with your last question. I'm already seeing a sort of "If you're a REAL Christian you'd want to go see the movie" attitude going on, although thankfully not within my congregation.
Finally, I want to thank LF for the recommendation on the Henri Nouwen book. I've read and enjoyed other books he has written, and I plan to see if I can track this one down.
Thank you all - you are a blessing!
RevMary
Sally: Your "Leap of Faith" Sunday reminded me of a quote from William Sloane Coffin (from Credo,p.7): "I love the recklessness of faith. First you leap, and then you grow wings." I have no idea how you would make that concrete in your congregation - perhaps use some of those cardboard Christmas-angel wings? :)
From Luke the Physician to Dr. Phil: It occurred to me that one aspect of this story is about the "tapes" we play in our heads when we look for guidance in a situation. For Jesus, the tapes that were solidly in his head, to which he turned for guidance and trusted, were the Scriptures that pointed to trust in God. The Devil tried to manipulate Jesus' trust by quoting Scripture out of context - but Jesus' trust was in a living God. LF
Dear BB u scare me, not mel gibson, because if u would take time to see the movie u might understand the great suffering that Christ endured out of love for all of us and if anyone comes off as the "heavy" it is the roman soldiers who beat him mercilessly as the Bible details. I thought the Sanhedren was treated fairly. I came away numb because at least the movie drove home the extent to which Jesus went to buy me back. It is an adult movie and those of mature heart or at least maturing hearts can find a deeper, clearer meaning in the crucifixion. As an aside, an intersting presentation of Satan. luv u BB but u need to expand ur mind ur tent and ur spirit. Amazing how the liberals want us to try everything except the whole of the Gospel story. tulsa liturgical baptist james 1:17
my family immigrated from Germany to Texas in 1832. We were one of the first anglo families to settle there. Using the logic of some in this room I would prefer to never mention the holocost because someone might think I was responsible for the actions of far distant relatives I have never met and will probably never meet this side of eternity. Yet to some degree I am responsbile as we are all responsible for the evil in the world. Jews were present at the crucifixion. Romans were present too and so were gentiles. There were slaves and free men. God fearers, proselytes, atheist, pantheist, politheists. So just who wasnt present at the crucifixion With Jerusalem swollen with world wide travelers for that Passover, seems to me the world was well represented. It's theological at this point but we all drove nails, split a side, pressed thorns and beat Jesus horribly. We may not have whips but we surely do it with actions, attitudes, and cutting words, doubts, fears, comprimises, betrayals --tulsa liturgical baptist Jn 14:6
anyone else playing with final words "he departed from him until a more opportune time" (Lk4:13). Those words haunt me. The portrayal of Satan in the Passion makes me think about these words. Satan always seemed to be there sneaking around, waiting for a more opportune time, whispering doubts, reinterpreting God's word, checking the chinks in my armor for the weak spot. Jesus overcame his evil machanations and by his grace so can we. tulsa liturgical baptist
Lutherans practice the "imposition of ashes" as well on Ash Wednesday - same cross on the forehead, same words reminding ourselves of our mortality.
A bit of trivia for the anonymous poster: the ashes traditionally are made by burning palm branches saved from the prior year's Passion (aka Palm) Sunday procession.
LaJo
I know this is late and probably will assist no one. It has been a busy week!!
It is also the first time I have reproduced any part of my final sermon on the site. I hope it gives something to someone who may be desperate.
This is what I have written in the middle part of my sermon.
In the three temptations, we find Jesus wrestling with choices and the agony of finding out what the truth demands. It is helpful I think to remember that it is God wrestling here with his own dilemma’s. What is the correct way to fix up the world’s problems? What is the appropriate method for defeating or countering evil and its effect upon the creation?
And so we find the accuser, listing the suggestions.
Jesus has the power to feed the world by turning rocks into bread, and why doesn’t God simply do that? Heaven knows most people ask the age old question. Why doesn’t God, simply turn all the rocks into bread and all the starving would be fed instantly. The truth Jesus identifies, is that it would do nothing to change the status of people’s inner spirit. The insidious human trait, of disobedience and rebellion would not be healed by being well-fed. In fact as we can attest to in Australia, the opposite seems to be the case. Well-fed people are no better in their relationships than hungry ones. “One does not live by bread alone”, and I could add as another gospel writer has, “but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God.” In other words, the spiritual reality of good relationship, is far more important than our physical existence.
And so in the temptations, Jesus is asked to consider another scenario of how his kingdom might operate. This time it is based upon the seduction of worldly power. Many people in the church often state that if only we had more money or more influence, we would be better equipped. God knows I have said similar. What Jesus recognises is that this is not the truth. More wealth and power are seductive and addictive.The rich are no better lovers than the poor. In fact often the opposite. They have far more distractions in their life, and so Jesus rejects the offer on the basis of serving God’s greater purpose. It is a temptation to think that you can achieve a more loving environment simply by throwing money at it. Jesus resists this direction in his ministry because he correctly identifies that being rich does not necessarily change the heart of a person. “Worship the Lord your God and serve only him.”
And finally the devil throws him the curliest one of all. The temptation to throw himself from the pinnacle of the temple, so that he would be simply be borne up by angels. At first glance we might say that we would all like to have such security. But again if we think about it seriously and deeply, it would not be any greater benefit to the overarching concern of God. Human sinfulness. How does this proposal get us to care for one another any more deeply?
I think that in this instance God in Jesus, struggles with what it means to always be vulnerable and available to the forces of the elements in which we live and move and have our being. God again asks the question in the light of this temptation, Would we (his children) be any better, if whole legions of angels protected us from harm at every step of the way, or isn’t it rather that we become better people when we actually share one another’s pain. The ability and capacity to love derives from our pain, not from being protected from it. Jesus again rejects this suggestion on the basis that it would not result in any inner personal change. Instead of finding ways of protecting each other, our rebellious inclination would simply find more outlandish ways to test our protector. “Do not put the Lord your God to the test.”
In each case we can see that Jesus rejects the orientation that the devil offers in this spiritual battle of will. He does so on the basis of the greater good. That it is the way of the cross, the way of self-sacrifice that is the only method and means by which our world will change.
Food alone, will not solve our inner condition. External control will not solve our inner condition
and neither will supernatural safety.
May God's Spirit be with you as you preach in His name.
Regards,
KGB in Aussie.
