Oh help! The idea of "chosen people" becomes problematic at this point.
People of every race and religion are already God's covenant partners. All were included in the covenant during Noah's time and cannot be excluded by some later covenant.
All people and all creatures are God's covenant partners!!!
Title: The Covenant of Disarmament
Synopsis: God deals decisively with sin, but God also chooses to limit those actions. The suspended bow, is pointed away from the earth. It is a sign of disarmament to God, it is a reminder to God – not us – of the covenant he has entered into with us not to destroy us. But why would God need a reminder?
Ed in WA
The rainbow is God's reminder, yes! And in Communion, we "remember" Christ every time we share the bread and wine. I like the remembering theme of this passage. And the fact that God makes this remembering covenant for Godself, long before we enter into the remembering of Holy Communion, seems to emphasize the pre-existence of grace.
JGentle, Ks
Ed, maybe God needs a reminder because we make God so cottonin pickin mad sometimes by our turning away from God's grace. What do you think?
Historians tell us that ancient peoples saw the rainbow as God's weapon. It's a bow, just like an archer's bow, that is seen after the rain. Lightning was believed to be the arrows of this mighty God. But in God’s covenant with Noah and his descendants, the rainbow is not a sign of anger and warfare, but rather a sign of mercy.
The covenant with Noah, initiated by God, is unilateral. God binds himself by a promise, without imposing any obligation on Noah. By this covenant and through God's mercy, we get to start again, and start anew.
- NJ Deacon
Ed in WA what you said struck a real chord with me regarding "God's disarmament" I heard a speech given by Desmond Tutu just recently in which he spoke of the need for restorative justice over retributive justice. Is this what the sign of the rainbow (ie God putting down God's weapon) can represent. I have always been reluctant to believe that restorative justice can work, but South Africa seems to show us that it can (at least according to Tutu). If you want whole speech it may be available but I am not sure just where. A member of my congregation has written for a copy (tape). The speech was given in Toronto in late February and replayed on The Vinyl Cafe on CBC Radio on Sunday, Feb.20. It was one of most moving accounts of how God wants us to act that I have ever heard. Deke of the North
I love this story, but find it really hard at the moment with whats happening in Mozambique.
How will they understandr God's covenant promise right now? CJW
JG in WI
The bow is only seen from our point of view. Viewed from space, it's a ring. Sounds like something I wear to remember a covenant.
I've been thinking of this as the finale to a story of judgment. Judgment was averted for Noah and his family because they were open to God's call in their lives and they made necessary preparations. Because they were prepared, God established a covenant with them.
Lent is a time of preparation; preparing our hearts for the Easter season; not by buying eggs and candy, but by remembering what we are...Christians. Maybe WE are the ones who need constant reminders of our covenant with God.
I think too, that I've become concerned that God is going to bring judgment on our world and on my country (USA) in particular. Judgment is averted by being aware of it, and obeying God's plan to prepare for it. This means being a follower of Jesus Christ before that judgment begins.
Any thoughts?
I'll be preaching on "Sign of the Covenant: Water" this week as the beginning of a Lenten series. In light of Mozambique, it causes us to think how to offer a word of hope in the midst of so much water. But for me, the image of a new born baby, born in a tree as mom awaited rescue, it a new sign of GOd's Covenant and Promise that the world will go on! By the water of the flood and the story of Noah we are promised life of through the Ancient Covenant which unites every living creature in GOd's promise. By the water of baptism (Gospel reading this week) we are promised new life through the new covenant of Jesus the Christ. Although we are beginning Lent, this time of penance can also be a time of hope and promise, if we see the error of our ways and fulfill our part of the promise/covenant. KAS
I can't get too excited about this passage. In the back of my mind I keep hearing a voice saying: "Okay, so God promises not to destroy the world through a flood again. That eliminates only one possible way God can't do it the next time. What about fire, nuclear war, the sun burning out...?"
I think this is looking at the text through a legalistic viewpoint though. Sure, I know this covenant with Noah is pregnant with God's grace, but I just can't help seeing all those dead bodies floating around the ark during those 40 days. Perhaps they serve to remind me of the consequences of not keeping a covenant. This however assumes a covenant with all of the people on the earth prior to the flood.
However, when I do see a rainbow in the sky I usually don't think about God wiping out the earth the next time. I'm usually just pretty excited to see it and somehow marvel at the beauty. It serves to remind me as a child of the New Covenant in Jesus that even if (when) God destroys this earth, I've got something even more beautiful than a rainbow waiting for me.
Painfully Honest,
John near Pitts.
Anyone have the words to Kermit's "The Rainbow Connection?"
All I can remember is: "The lovers, the dreamers and me." Got to use this one for Sunday.
John near Pitts.
John neart Pitts. - If you can wait until either this evening or tomorrow evening, I can get the words to the Rainbow Connection (I have the recording). LL in L
Deke of the North,
If you figure out how to get a script of Tutu's message, I'd like to know so I can read it. Sounds like it was powerful to you. From what you've shared, I want to know more.
JR in Big D
Why are there so many songs about rainbows
And what's on the other side?
Rainbows are visions, but only illusions
And Rainbows have nothing to hide.
So we've been told and some choose to believe it
I know they're wrong,wait and see
Someday we'll find it, the rainbow connection,
the lovers, the dreamers and me.
Who said that every wish would be heard and answered
when wished on the morning star?
Somebody thought of that and someone believed it
Look what it's done so far.
What's so amazing that keeps us stargazing?
And what do we think we might see?
Someday we'll find it, the rainbow connection,
the lovers, the dreamers and me.
All of us under its spell
We know that it's probably magic.
Have you been half-asleep
and have you heard voices?
I've heard them calling my name.
Is this the sweet sound that calls the young sailors?
The voice might be one and the same.
I've heard it too many times to ignore it.
It's something that I'm s'posed to be.
Someday we'll find it, the rainbow connection,
the lovers, the dreamers and me.
Courtesy of my daughter, Abbey, who has it memorized!
Why are there so many songs about rainbows
And what's on the other side?
Rainbows are visions, but only illusions
And Rainbows have nothing to hide.
So we've been told and some choose to believe it
I know they're wrong,wait and see
Someday we'll find it, the rainbow connection,
the lovers, the dreamers and me.
Who said that every wish would be heard and answered
when wished on the morning star?
Somebody thought of that and someone believed it
Look what it's done so far.
What's so amazing that keeps us stargazing?
And what do we think we might see?
Someday we'll find it, the rainbow connection,
the lovers, the dreamers and me.
All of us under its spell
We know that it's probably magic.
Have you been half-asleep
and have you heard voices?
I've heard them calling my name.
Is this the sweet sound that calls the young sailors?
The voice might be one and the same.
I've heard it too many times to ignore it.
It's something that I'm s'posed to be.
Someday we'll find it, the rainbow connection,
the lovers, the dreamers and me.
Courtesy of my daughter, Abbey, who has it memorized!
Speaking of songs, the one from 1973 or so is good.
"I can see clearly now, the rain is gone. I can see all obstacles in my way.
Gone are the dark clouds that had me blind. It's gonna be a bright, bright, sunshiny day."
This can apply to the Noah story, but also to the Mark passage. Jesus in the (desert) wilderness was out of the rain and away from the clouds. Perhaps his vision was clear enough to save him from those temptations. We need that time in the wilderness, away from the noise and bustle and all that surrounds us. We need time alone to be with God to hear God's voice.
Too many things get in the way of our seeing God, of seeing God's rainbow. It's hard to focus on what's most important. LL in L
notice how God has the rainbow...to remind himself...... it is a sign to him... a Sacrament from God to God, for God.....now THAT will make our rational mental side itch!
love it!... God puts a string around God's finger!!
This sunday we will use rainbow colored yarn and have the people tie one around each other's finger.... to remind us that God will remember the Covenant......
how about having a display of ark stuff...and have some folk wear their arky stuff?
Yes this one invites us to play with this text!!!
let your inner child enjoy....
pastordon,elmira,ny
JG in WI The bow is only seen from our point of view. Viewed from space, it's a ring. Sounds like something I wear to remember a covenant.
yes!... and i heard somewhere that every person sees the rainbow a liitle different.... from a unique position and perspective..... there is no right or wrong, no end to the rainbow.
one year when i led a mission work team to guatemala... it was the dry season...
we entered this village, carrying some gifts or fruit including oranges in a basket on our heads (gifts of children in our church)....
suddenly there was a shout..."milagros"...miracle...
we stopped and smiling, turned around to see above in the sky...a bright rainbow..... in the dry season..
praise the Lord.
pastordon elmira,ny
the people came of huts
Yesterday as I was driving to my church after a thunderstorm I rounded a bend to see a beautiful rainbow arched over the cemetery. It was an awesome sight, and a reminder of the power of God's love to overcome the power sin and death.
On another note, as I taught the story of Noah to a VBS class this past summer some of the kids questioned how heavy the rains would have to be to cover the earth so completely, even with the springs opening up as well. One 8 year old announced that it wasn't any ordinary rain, but that it was the tears of God washing over the earth! It, too, was a very powerful image.
Trusting a God who has to remind Himself isn't too comforting to me. I mean what if God forgets or something? A God who has to be reminded may not always be thinking about me.
When I see a rainbow it is special because of it's rareity, but more importantly to me, it reminds me of someplace so beautiful and wonderful that my heart longs for Paradise. It becomes for me a promise of what is yet to come.
That's why I love the song, Rainbow Connection the way Kermit sings it. There's a subtle wishing/longing for some thing, some place where all of the "lovers and dreamers and me" will meet. Rainbows make me homesick!
(Abby, thanks for the words to the song, equipped with an echo! I also found a wave file to download, but can't remember where I found it.)
God Bless You,
John near Pitts.
Does God needing a reminder make God any less divine?
The Greeks and Romans knew their gods by their attributes; omnipotence, onmipresence...
But in the Bible God is known by what God does and what God promises. To me this is
less abstract and more real; historical and personal. I like the personhood of God that is shared with us in these stories.
It makes God lovable.
I don't love gravity. I count on it. It is powerful and I respect it but I don't love it.
On the other hand, God who makes covanant with us and creates rainbows for Godly remembrance, is to me
Thou whom I love. Manzel
The Desmond Tutu speech, entitled "Justice, memory and reconciliation" is available at the University of Toronto Website. It is well worth the read.
TH in GA
In January I was in Israel. As we toured Meggido (Armegedon) a storm rose up; fierce wind and quite a bit of rain. As we walked through the archeological dig a rainbow appeared over the Jezreel Valley. An awesome symbol of God's mercy over the symbol of God's judgement. God's mercy presupposes God's judgement.
BroKen
*CALL TO WORSHIP:
I keep reaching for rainbows... thinking one God's morning
I will wake up with rainbow ribbons in my hair,
With hurts painted over in hues that only angel wings could brush,
Dark obliterated, chaos hurled beyond the rainbow and my vision,
The world created in a myriad of colors:
The hungry fed. The dying held, The maimed walking,
The angry stroked, the violent calmed, the oppressed freed,
The oppressors changed, and every tear wiped away.
I keep reaching for rainbows,
But instead of colors in our storm,
Gray and black infiltrate, dirtying the sky,
And I hear human voices wailing in the darkness, the never-ending darkness. . . .
Just the same I know the promise of the rainbow.
I keep thinking I'll turn a corner one day and find a litany of rainbows
Flung across the sky, Singing hosanna back and forth
Through all the ages and out into eternity forever amen!
ALL: Every tear wiped away- It's a promise-
When we become rainbows to each other. (Ann Weems, Reaching for Rainbows)
John of Pitts-
i sometimes think we in the european tradition have "tamed" God too much... we have lost the sense of how the Hebrews encountered God...arguing with Him, getting God to change His mind.... writing that he placed the rainbow there in the sky as a reminder to Himself...love it!
there is something more trustworthy of a God like that... He is a God who is active in the world..."walking in the cool of the morning" in Eden.
Maybe it's best to let this concept roll over us... and i wonder where our people are with this. do they have a view more classicaly eastern or european?
theology can actually be fun...can't it?
pastordon elmira,ny
A covenant is made between more than one party. And for a covenant to be kept, all involved must participate in the covenant. If we look at floods and other diasters and think that God is not keeping the promise, I think our accusations are misplaced. God is not the one who breaks the covenant. We are! God's promises are kept in faithfulness to us. It is our human need to take control that gets us in trouble and leads to the destruction of the earth which we see. Let's not blame God for our failure to participate in the covenant. PHL in NY
Hmmm, thinking again about the God who needs reminding. I gather from some of the posts that a forgetting God in the hand is worth two remembering Gods in the great out-there-somewhere. A God who comes near (and wrestled with) is better than pie-in-the-sky.
I do admire the honest approach of the Hebrew perspective as pastordon elmira,ny notes.
John near Pitts.
(committed to more discussion away from the Gospel traffic)
John near Pitts., Two points. 1. Yes, earth is going to go through great tribulation at the end time, as scripture tells us. But much of that appears to be the work of human sin. God, we are also told, ISN'T going to destroy the world again. Earth will "pass away" when God brings re-creation in new earth (&heaven).
2. The key to GOD'S need to remember his covenant isn't his need not to forget.We don't wear wedding rings (at least, we SHOULDN'T) to make us remember we're married. We wear them as symbols which remind us that there's more to being married than a piece of paper- there's a covenant relationship and our promise to honor it as well. The rainbow is God's "covenant ring" as it were. It's not like a string around the Eternal Finger. It reminds God of why he made this promise - God's deep love for God's children.Ken in WV
